I agree, I think I mentioned I wanted to put my head through a wall. I hate that tattoo thing. Bleh! I spit on it in disgust. It was a novelty, now… so tired of it.

As for what I said. I don’t think I explained myself clearly because I was way tired and slightly irritated from dealing with the human race. (Yes, I am antisocial. I think we covered that.) I was mentioning that his “better person thing” (which was poorly worded on my side to begin with) was from season 3. I got what they were trying to do with him, but it still ended up being a convoluted mess. The bloody painting in Virginia’s blood, that was his nature, no doubt about it. I think at that moment I had forgotten all about that. I also know that I mentioned Sylar’s state as being influenced by his indulgence into his nature. He’s given up trying to do something about it and expects others to fix it and fill the giant rotted out hole in the middle of his heart. He needs conviction. If the writers really want to fix his character he needs to make the decision to try and make up for what he’s done and stick with it, good or bad. He relies too much on what others think of him. As selfish and self loving as he is, he still has a strong compulsion to please others or to make them drawn to him. That’s why he had the watch shop, that’s why he wanted to be “special”, that’s why he did everything Angela and Arthur asked of him. He wants acceptance, too bad he doesn’t know how to really earn it. Lots and lots of hard work.

What you’re describing is the optimum scenario. I’ve encountered stories with static immortals, who are still affected by events in their formative years, though, so I can’t help contemplating the possibility. It’s not pretty. That’s why I’m angry the show isn’t letting Claire deal with her immortality. If she isn’t allowed to face up to it and her relationships in relation to it, she’ll have a greater chance of becoming a static, neurotic, if not psychotic character with her head really in the sand. It’s obvious she’s going to spend eternity collecting morally gray badasses who give her pet names. The question will be does she collect those people as a coping mechanism to go forward or as a coping mechanism, because she’ll be going in circles. Given how the Merry-Go-Round has been written, circles are an unfortunate possibility.

Hence the self-indulgence, the drinking and the Lauroah.

“… during those times when she has no love to tide her over.”

I think this is why we need that “500 Years Later” episode. It’s hard to imagine anyone taking HRG’s place, but I find it even harder to imagine that there’ll never be anyone else who takes his place as a surrogate father to Claire. Looking at the scenes between Claire and Samuel in 4.13, I could even see them bonding. It wouldn’t be the same father/daughter bond, obviously, and it’s a limited bond if Samuel turns out to be a tyrant with world domination as his endgame. But the point is I think there’ll always be someone in Claire’s life she can turn to. They’ll always be transitory bonds and relationships because, as you say, everyone around her will die, but I can’t see Claire ever having no love to tide her over.

As influential as HRG is, though, I also wonder how much of an impact he’ll have on Claire’s immortal existence. I think you could draw a comparison to Adam and say that his experiences during his first 30-40 years as Kensei are only a very minor part to the person he became. It’s a different situation, of course, because the HRG/Claire relationship is completely different to the Adam/Hiro conflict. The point is, I can’t see Adam often reflecting on his experiences 400 years earlier and drawing on them to guide him today (or just before he was killed). Hiro’s betrayal and the Yaeko situation influenced the maniac he became, but I wonder whether Claire’s experiences in her first 30 years will be any more formative than Kensei’s were. Experiences shape who people are, but if Claire lived for another 400 years, would the lessons she learned from HRG in her first 20 years be any more formative than the lessons Kensei learned from Hiro? It’s everything that happens throughout her life that will affect her — all of the people she’ll care about, all of the relationships she’ll be in, all of the crises she’ll face, all of the hardship she’ll endure. I see it as an ongoing thing rather than a static thing, which is why I’m not sure I see Claire miserable and alone and wishing HRG could be with her 400 years from now.

LeeAnna, I’m curious about this:

“Sylar, when he could have maintained his progress to be a better person, gave up because he couldn’t sort through the lies.”

I’m not disagreeing, but which instance of “becoming a better person” are we thinking of? Returning home in 1.21, the Petrelli/overcoming-The-Hunger arc, or another instance? My impression in both of those instances was that it wasn’t so much the lies that forced Sylar to give in as it was his own nature. With painting the Floorpocalypse in Virginia’s blood, I took it to be the show’s way of saying that Sylar had accepted what he was and what he needed to do; that he cared more about power than family or a mundane existence; that he’d severed himself from human connections and that becoming the greatest super of all in a fiery blaze was more enticing than a life as a bank clerk. With the whole Petrelli/Hunger arc, I think the convoluted message at the end of 3.11 was that Sylar knew he was never going to change and that he was rotten at the core. I didn’t see it as him not being able to sort through the lies, but almost the opposite: he was realizing the fundamental truth that no one was going to make him a better person. Which ties in with the point you’ve made about Sylar being a victim of what’s been done to him, but perhaps the message in these two instances was that he reached an epiphany in spite of the lies?

I think one reason why the Magik Tattoo device is disappointing (at least for me) is because it robs Sylar of the chance to even have that kind of epiphany anymore. He’s basically turning to the Magik Ink voodoo to tell him what he needs to do instead of realizing it himself.

But I think the occasional reference would go a long way — to advancing the character arcs AND to bridging the backstory with the current story. Matt has good reason to bring up You-Know-Who, especially when Janice is (from what we’ve seen) either unable or unwilling to talk about what Matt and Matt Jr. are capable of. Matt’s relationship with Daphne in the 3.04 future made zero sense, but at least it hinted at an honest and open relationship, which I’m not sure Matt’s life with Janice is. Matt Jr. is going to grow up with the impression that he has to conceal his ability, or that it’s something he should be ashamed of. That’s unhealthy for the kid, and it’s something that Danielle wouldn’t have had to deal with if she’d grown up with Matt and Daphne.

So, I agree that the show shouldn’t incorporate random references just for the sake of earning a thumbs-up from continuity nerds, and I agee that referencing certain parts of the backstory risks alienating new viewers. But certain parts of the backstory are VERY relevant to the current story, and I think sometimes a direct reference is exactly what the scenes need, to advance the characters’ stories AND to placate fans who want to see some kind of consistency from volume to volume. Bringing back Charlie achieved that, in my view. Even an oblique reference to West achieves that. But there’s so much more the show could draw on, even with a casual line to tell us that the characters remember what’s happened to them. Does Peter even remember Simone and Caitlin? Was Matt in any way affected by meeting the dad he hadn’t seen in years, discovering he was a villain and then learning that he was killed by Peter’s father? Does Sylar even remember that he wanted to be president, or has he just decided it wasn’t a good idea? That’s stuff that fans would respond to, and I think it’s part of a rich backstory that would ATTRACT NEW FANS because it would help to define who these characters are and how their experiences have affected them. When stuff like that is ignored, the disconnect pulls us out of the narrative and shatters our suspension of disbelief.

With Noah, we’ve seen he has depth. But he’s one of the few characters who we fully believe will kill and torture if he has to. Which is interesting and good for Coleman - be a shame for him to be given one dimensional ‘bad-ass’ moments again.

But I think Raissa brings up an excellent point about Claire needing to realize that Noah will in fact die one day and she’s going to have to deal with all the regrets she might have about their rocky relationship. I don’t think Claire necessarily thinks about it (at least we haven’t seen her directly contemplate it), but it would be interesting character development to have her let go for letting go’s sake and accept everything - good and bad - that Noah’s done.

I agree with you about Noah. He’s reached the point where he needs to acknowledge himself and his life and just get on with being a somewhat wiser badass. There’s a very fine line between character growth and self-indulgence. The structure of the show is part of the problem. The writers have to fill 19 eps this season, and all the story lines have been padded with mixed results.

I agree on the aspects that HRG tries to make the world a better place, and Sylar is just a super selfish bastard, but that goes back to my behavioristic argument I made back before the break. Remember that one? I think we kept going back and forth for a couple of episodes on that one. Its the idea that the people involved with their lives influence their actions. Sylar not only has the lack of people who care for him, but he seems to have given into his nature as well. Now, with the aimlessness he’s exhibiting, I think he’s beginning to show what his father alluded to. He became more powerful, but had no purpose.

I will point out that you forgot another similarity between the two, self destruction. Even you have to admit that Noah’s actions, as good intentioned as some of them might have been, erode away at his relationships because of how he approaches them. Sylar, when he could have maintained his progress to be a better person, gave up because he couldn’t sort through the lies. They both really just need to admit the fact that they both have hit rock bottom, (Sorry Noah, but you messed up big time with your daughter.) and quit moping around and making out with blondes. They need to both go back to being the bad asses we knew from season one. You know, the ones that gave us chills. What happened to the Man in the Horn Rimmed Glasses (what an awesome episode title that would be) and the Boogieman? Pussies…. Don’t get me wrong, I still love them dearly, but I miss them as they were. Now they must join Peter and Matt at the local bar to whine about their lives made of suck as they listen to bad country music. (Wow, I just realized how pitiful some of these characters can be. Eh… oh well. I love ‘em.)