Peter and Sylathan join Angela for Thanksgiving, and finally prize a confession out of her about the Sylathan Debacle. We learn that Angela still has a heart beneath that steely exterior, although it doesn’t do her much good when Sylar reemerges and decides to make good on his promise to kill everyone involved in his out-of-body experience. Sylar scarfs down pie, kisses Angela (!) and comes moments away from slicing her head open, only to be stopped by Sylathan when he regains control of his body and flies away.
It’s hard to say if this one amounts to a Very Special Episode. It never quite devolves into boiling down complex issues to their simplest form, but there are traces of the format that would usually end with everyone learning a Very Valuable Lesson: the young adult whose father reminds her that she has a world of possibilities; the tenacious mother who insists that her son’s spirit can triumph over all adversity; the friend who overcomes her fear and finds her way back to the one person who understands her better than anyone.
In all fairness, Heroes has often demonstrated integrity by not resolving issues for the sake of a neatly-wrapped story. But then, that’s part of the problem. Most Very Special Episodes end with an upbeat message, and as false as that rings, you sometimes have to wonder whether Heroes has abandoned the concept of an upbeat message altogether. It presents an increasingly bleak picture of a world where good will is exploited, where nobility is manipulated — and, crucially, where villains prevail.
From that perspective, “Thanksgiving” is almost the opposite of a Very Special Episode. In contrast to the format which usually sacrifices ambiguity for the sake of conveying a simplistic message about hope, this episode contains nothing but ambiguity. It ends with the protagonist determined to find a solution to a seemingly unsolveable problem, but unless you’ve steered clear of spoilers like the plague, you’ll know it’s a problem he won’t be able to solve. This episode also ends with a young adult reaching a point where she feels her only option is to join a group that’s run by a known killer, and an episode in which that same killer outwits a guy who believes in avenging a murder, and a guy who only wants to rescue the woman he loves.
Put simply, Heroes appears to have abandoned all sense of hope. This week, the central villain gets to make fun of the protagonist for believing in concepts like “hope” and “the triumph of the human spirit.” And as much as you want to disagree with a villain who outstayed his welcome about three seasons ago, it’s hard to argue with Sylar when the show’s backstory proves him right. You could argue that it’s a more realistic message about the human condition, and that it’s preferable to a Very Special Episode in which the wrongdoers get their comeuppance and the protagonist overcomes an insurmountable problem. But every now and then, you wonder why the show is apparently unwilling to allow its characters the chance to be happy.
Which isn’t to say this is a weak episode. On a first viewing, it’s memorable for some remarkable performances, for a well-crafted script and for the way it advances the central character arcs at a swift pace. It’s only when you dig deeper that you start to see the problems: the fact that Peter and Angela are rooting for Nathan to win out over Sylar, even though Nathan’s been dead since the end of the previous season. The way Samuel strings Hiro along like a fool, even though Hiro now has several viable ways to rescue Charlie. And the notion that, even after Claire has been reunited with Gretchen and knows that Samuel is a shady character, she’s willing to consider joining his cult anyway.
Which either makes all of the characters incredibly dumb, or it makes this episode the antithesis to a Very Special Episode, in the sense that instead of discarding all ambiguity for the sake of delivering a straightforward message, we have no straightforward message and nothing but ambiguity. And Miss Lovegood. And lots of dirty euphemisms.
Ah, we’ll get there.
We start out with Samuel watching Chandra’s film reel and learning that surrounding himself with supers will make him very, very powerful.
Samuel is delighted by the footage of his birth, although whether that’s because he delights in the havoc his birth causes, the idea of birth itself or the fact that he now knows how to become super-powerful is unclear.
Hiro demands to know where Charlie is, and Masi Oka brings a resolve to his performance…
… that’s both surprising and admirable. Again, shades of the jaded character we saw in “Five Years Gone,” and — dare I say it — a hopeful sign that the show has moved beyond using Hiro as the perennial clown.
Samuel taunts Hiro with the idea of killing him, then reminds Hiro that if he kills him, he’ll never find out where Charlie is. Already now, you have to wonder why, if his ability’s strong enough for him to freeze time and travel through time, he doesn’t just teleport to L.A. and ask Matt to Parkman-whammy the information out of him.
Meanwhile…
… Noah goes from Bachelor HRG to Stalker HRG — a guy who apparently followed a woman he nearly had an affair with to her local supermarket to ask her if she’ll cook Thanksgiving dinner for him.
Or not. It could be that Noah genuinely had no idea he was looking right at Lauren, and this was a chance meeting that just happened to make Noah’s plans for Thanksgiving possible.
Noah: “You can invite Gretchen.”
Claire: “Actually, I can’t. She moved all the way across campus.”
Wait, so Gretchen moved back to college after telling Claire she was going home, and now she’s just… living in a different dorm? So Rebecca’s thought process is, “I want to kill everyone who means anything to Claire! I’ll start with the friend she cares so much about!… Argh! I can’t! She lives ACROSS CAMPUS! My plan is foiled! NOOOOOOOOO!” Moving across campus hardly puts Gretchen out of harm’s way. It just puts her beyond the reach of the immediate story.
Was Lyle’s absence a disappointment? It’s disappointing in the sense that seeing Bentley reprise his role would have been welcome. But I can’t say I see the scene at Noah’s apartment turning out differently if Lyle had been there. His part in the conversation was essentially replaced with Doug’s: make a remark, annoy everyone and wait for them to tell you to shut up.
Noah: “Don’t make me be alone with your mother and Doug.”
Claire: “She’s bringing the new boyfriend?”
Noah: “She never goes anywhere without him.”
Subtle way to build up our curiosity about the guy, and a way to affirm that, yes, the man who answered Sandra’s phone when Noah called her is indeed her boyfriend.
I recall describing the idea at the time with the words character assassination. That’s still how I feel. On the one hand you want to be happy for Sandra, because she’s a likeable character and you want to see her content. On the other hand, you wonder how, so soon after the end of her marriage, she could enter into a new relationship. The idea is never developed as much as it should be, and that’s hardly surprising given the way the show shies away from social discussion on a regular basis; that’s why we never find out what happened to Nathan’s family, why Molly vanished and was never mentioned again and why Lyle — extraneous as he is — never has to adjust to life without a father in the home, or to the strange man who barges into his life and makes every effort to be the man Sandra wishes Noah could have been. Suffice it to say, I don’t buy Sandra hooking up with this guy any more than I buy Noah hooking up with Lauren. Which is to say, I don’t buy it at all. It’s great for laughs, but it comes at the expense of character. This is not the way Sandra was portrayed over the course of the previous four volumes.
Lauren: “Didn’t peg you for a yam man.”
Noah: “Oh, yeah. Big yam man.”
Was that actually a conversation about yams? Or is it code for something much naughtier? You decide. I think the dialogue is harmless enough, but when you consider the way the conversation turns to “frozen beasts,” “cooked birds” and Noah’s admission that he’s “not exactly an expert in life skills,” I can’t help wondering if there’s something in the subtext that writers Armus and Foster are trying to tell us.
Lauren: “You’re stalking me, aren’t you?”
Noah: “Yes, but I am also cooking Thanksgiving dinner for my daughter and my ex-wife.”
Lauren: “Ex-wife?”
I want to say I feel sorry for Lauren, because she is buying dinner for herself and planning to celebrate Thanksgiving alone. But when you consider that this is the same woman who encouraged Noah to cheat on his wife at a time when his daughter was in mortal danger, there’s the inescapable truth that she’s acted like a total b**ch.
Peter watches over Sylathan. Whether that’s because he’s waiting for Sylar to reemerge or because he’s overwhelmed by the truth is something that’s never developed as much as I wish it could have been. This week’s episode hints at Peter being saddened, upset and resentful over both Nathan’s death and Angela’s attempt to salvage the situation. But Peter’s reaction rarely suggests anything resembling grief or anger, and those are the emotions I was hoping we’d see.
Peter reveals that he found Nathan’s body in a storage unit. You could interpret that as evidence of Peter’s stupidity because he’s effectively volunteering the only piece of information he’s not supposed to have. In a way, though, it’s in character for a guy who’s always been very open and honest with the people in his life; no rhetoric, and no attempt to catch his mother out — just an indication that he’s bothered by what he’s learned, and the implicit request for an explanation.
It’s like the two of them are half-hiding behind a wall — literally and figuratively, from each other and from the truth. Subtle, but the kind of thing director Seith Mann was probably aiming for when he shot the scene.
Sylathan drags himself off his bed to support Peter’s insistence on getting the truth out of Angela. Sylathan at one point grabs Angela by the arm to stop her from walking away, and it’s harsh enough that Peter visibly flinches. Nothing compared to what Sylar does to Angela later, but one of the overt ways to convey how determined Sylathan had become to get a confession out of Angela.
Angela: “It’s Thanksgiving and you are my family, and we will sit down like a family as we do every year, or I will leave here and you will never hear from me again.”
Was that a threat? Because after all of the damage she’s done, would it be so bad if they never heard from her again? You want to laugh at the lack of weight her intended threat carries, but also at the way she’s clearly deluding herself into thinking they are still a family.
We cut to Noah’s apartment, with Claire noting that something smells good. I feel bad for Lauren, because as objectionable as her actions have been, she makes the effort to cook and gets little or no appreciation for it from anyone besides Noah.
Noah reintroducing Claire to Lauren is a moment that comes across as self-parody; you know Claire’s look of horror is because she can’t believe Noah brought a date, but you could equally interpret that look as a reaction to the show adding a character to the Bennet backstory without any clear reason. Even better than that? The way Lauren barely looks at Claire when she tells her how beautiful she’s become. That one moment says everything you need to know about the character, and when you couple it with this…
… it’s difficult to discredit the “Lauren’s-a-spy-for-Samuel” theory. There’s inquisitive, there’s nosy, and then there’s blatantly gathering intel.
The funny thing is I can totally see Lauren living that bohemian lifestyle in the exact way I can’t see Tracy.
We’re introduced to the man Sandra jumped into a new relationship with, and…
… he turns out to be a complete dork. If you take Sandra’s cluelessness in the first season and throw in some pretentious affectations and a little legume intolerance, you’ve got this character in a nutshell. Which is probably the exact impression the show wanted, and it’s an impression that Mark Stratton cements with a performance that’s as nuanced as it is flamboyant. Nicely written, and nicely played.
“Miss Lovegood” is an abbreviation for “Dame Penelope Gene Lovegood III.” Is that to say that “Mr. Muggles” is an abbreviation for something too? Trivia that you hope will one day be revealed, but it’s peripheral to the response the show expertly elicits from everyone in the audience: a unanimous, wholehearted aw.
We return to the carnival, where Hiro tells Lydia that he’d usually be celebrating Kinro kansha no hi instead of Thanksgiving. Neat detail, and one you can imagine Masi contributing to the script, but also one that emphasizes how sad Hiro’s situation is, because the one person he’s thankful for is now trapped in space and time.
In retrospect, parts of this scene seem more relevant than they did on the first viewing, specifically whether Lydia ever cared about Hiro’s state of mind, or whether her concern for Hiro was a prelude to her using him to go back in time. It could be that she was genuinely concerned about him, but the more likely explanation is she played Hiro to get the information she wanted about Joseph. Which, in a way, makes her as manipulative as Samuel.
The other part worth noting is that, as Edgar points out, Samuel wanted to retrieve the film but had no interest in stopping his past self from killing Joseph. Which seems to suggest that despite Samuel’s grief in “Ink,” and indeed as early as the opening scene in the premiere, Samuel is more interested in exploring his untapped potential than bringing his brother back from the dead. Maybe that’s because he knows Joseph wouldn’t approve of his lust for power. Maybe it’s because he knows the ripple effect from preventing Joseph’s death will unravel the timeline. But the underlying impression is that Samuel cares more about power than about his own brother, and I can’t help thinking this is a detail that undermines his entire character arc. Until now, Samuel seemed like a character who pursued power as a means to strengthen his family. The impression we’re getting now is almost the opposite: that he’s exploiting his superpowered family to harness his power, and that he’s willing to sacrifice anyone — even his own family — in order to realize his goal.
Lydia leads Hiro to her trailer, and then…
Oh.
OH.
Lydia: “I can feel what you feel, Hiro. Touch me.”
^ ^ Actual dialogue!
OH. MY. GOD.
What are we watching? What is happening here? Is this some kind of dirty version of Heroes that made it onto the air by accident? Make it stop, NBC!
This is what the carnival does! It corrupts good people! If they’re going to do this to poor Hiro, imagine what they’re going to do to Claire.
Alas, we already have more of an idea of what they’re going to do to her than we’d like, but it’s a disturbing thought just the same.
Hiro: “Oh no, you made us time-travel!”
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Let me get this straight: Lydia’s an empath who can tap into other people’s abilities when she makes contact with them? Or is it just that she’s so charming and so persuasive that other people go weak in the knees and access their abilities without realizing it? As hilarious as it is that we’re pondering the logistics of a super touching a semi-naked woman and using his ability without intending to, the hilarity is offset by the disappointment that, halfway through the season, we’re no closer to understanding Lydia’s ability than we were at the start.
Lydia: “Is that the man that killed Joseph?”
Hiro: “That’s Dr. Suresh.”
Close enough. Do what you have to do, Lydia! Avenge Joseph! We’re all with you!
We come to a scene that’s in many ways a cornerstone of the episode, if only because it’s a scene that’s long overdue, and one we’d been waiting for since the start of the season.
There are tears in Angela’s eyes as she recounts what happened, and as such it allows for Cristine Rose to deliver one of her most searing and brutally honest performances throughout the series. As contemptible and selfish as Angela remains for putting this entire tragedy into motion, it’s hard to deny that her heart was in the right place and that she believed she was doing the right thing.
Sylathan doesn’t seem so convinced, and Pasdar plays the bulk of the scene with a steely-eyed disdain that’s at once cold-hearted and understandable. I’d say this was in character because it’s not far off the way the guy who rounded up supers and loaded them onto a cargo jet would react. That would suggest that this character shares the same traits as the guy he’s imitating, and in a way that speaks to the accuracy of the imitation.
Peter, perhaps not surprisingly, finds it in himself to sympathize with his mother, which again is in character for a guy whose compassion always extended beyond everyone else’s, and for a guy who’s apparently unable to condemn his family for anything for too long.
Angela: “I made Matt Parkman do it. This is the part where I ask you to forgive me.”
Again, nicely delivered, with Cristine playing the moment with her head down and the faintest hint of a chuckle, because it seems Angela realizes that the prospect of earning her sons’ forgiveness is slim.
Peter: “So that body we saw… That was Nathan?”
Angela: “Technically, yes. But as far as the world is concerned, Nathan is still alive.”
Great dialogue, because it speaks to Angela’s preoccupation with appearances. It’s consistent with the woman who stayed with the husband she knew was a tyrant, and with the woman who now insists on her family celebrating Thanksgiving in spite of the atmosphere pervading the apartment.
Sylathan: “Yeah, but I’m not me.”
Angela: “It is your mind. They are your memories. You look exactly the same. You are Nathan Petrelli. You are my son. You’re Peter’s brother. And it’s been this way for months.”
It’s the only part of Angela’s dialogue that sounds less than persuasive, and you get the sense that she realizes that; at this point, it’s something you either buy into or disregard, because the idea that memories and appearance are enough to constitute an individual is very much a subjective thing. I’m as unconvinced as Sylathan, and I have been since last season’s finale. But there’s no denying that Pasdar incorporates many of Nathan’s traits — his mannerisms and his characteristics — into Sylathan. Which, in a way, helps to fuel the debate, because it suggests a personality can be synthesized and go on to become more than the sum of its parts. You could argue that Peter didn’t spend enough time around Sylathan to detect that he wasn’t his brother. But if Sylathan reached a point where he could believably stand in for Nathan within a couple of months, you could equally argue that, within a year or two, he’d be indistinguishable from the real thing.
Meanwhile…
Lauren: “So, Sandra, how did you and Doug meet?”
Sandra: “Well…”
Doug: “May I?”
Sandra: “Please.”
Doug: “It was love at first sight…”
Great writing. For a split second, you’re thinking, “No way, he did not just say that in front of Sandra’s ex-husband and daughter. No one’s that insensitive.”
Doug: “… for Mr. Muggles and Miss Lovegood, that is.”
Everyone laughs. Even we laugh. But it’s more a laugh of relief than amusement, because imagine the awkwardness this joke would have caused if Doug had waited a moment longer to deliver that punchline. It’s a joke that plays on confusion, and whether he means to or not, Doug ends up looking like a d*%k for telling a joke which relies on the assumption that he’s talking about a recently divorced woman — right in front of the guy she was married to for 22 years.
Sandy? Sandy? Claire mouths it to Noah in horror, and who can blame her? That’s… just awful.
Doug suggests a family tradition that requires everyone to find something they’re thankful for, and the only thing more entertaining than Claire’s look of contempt…
… is Lauren’s look of bewilderment. Nicely played, and all the more hilarious when you realize Doug’s oblivious to the reaction.
The first thing that occurs to Lauren to be thankful for is canned yams, which perhaps underlines how thin her characterization has been…
… but which elicits such a delightful snicker from Noah that you know it’s another dirty euphemism. Oh, show. Really. We hold you to a higher standard than this.
Claire: “I know that I should be thankful, but I’m just not feeling it right now.”
Ungrateful? Inconsiderate? Bratty? It’s as subjective as deciding whether or not Nathan can be replicated by his looks and memories, but when you consider that her parents recently separated, that her friends have been targeted and killed, that she’s feeling like an outcast and that her biological parents recently died — one of them without her even knowing it — it’s not like anyone could blame her for feeling thankless. It’s obstinate of her to not even try to think of something to be thankful for — even something lame, like canned yams — but her reasons for feeling miserable are valid. It’s only her actions in response to her unhappiness that seem ungrateful, inconsiderate and bratty.
Samuel gathers the carnival members and declares that it’ll be “a Thanksgiving to remember,” unwittingly reminding us that the reason this particular Thanksgiving is so forgettable is because we have no idea who most of the people gathered around this table are.
Except Amanda. Which assumes viewers have followed the graphic novels and Sprint clips. If they haven’t, this moment won’t mean a whole lot, and lots of people will wonder when Lydia suddenly gained a daughter and a backstory.
We cut back to Hiro and Lydia’s foray into the past to witness Samuel confronting Joseph in a corn field.
Beautifully shot, and a remarkable choice by the director because it challenges the actors to deliver the scene with little more than their voices.
Samuel: “My whole life, you’ve kept me under your thumb. Why?”
Joseph: “Because you’re dangerous, Samuel.”
The straight-up, no-pretense approach echoes Peter’s, and it’s probably an indication of why the carnival respected Joseph. At the same time, his answer prompts us to wonder why, if Samuel’s power depended on a high concentration of supers in a small area, Joseph allowed him to live in an environment so conducive to the risk of him becoming dangerous.
Joseph: “You can move the earth, Samuel, but it’s more than that. Cities, mountains. You have the power to kill millions. I can’t let that happen.”
It’s the closest we’ve gotten to a hint that Samuel is behind the earth-splitting in “The Second Coming,” but even if he isn’t, the emotional undercurrent in this scene is as effective as the ramifications to what Samuel finds out. We never find out for sure if Joseph has an ability, but the implication is that Joseph created the carnival to assuage his own sense of isolation, and that he spent his life bottling up a secret sinister enough to have global repercussions. Which is a neat parallel to Angela, and at the same time draws a parallel between Samuel and Sylar, in the sense that we now know that both of them spent their lives searching for an elusive truth that they couldn’t put their finger on.
Samuel: “Always thought that I was missing out on something. Some untapped potential. Just tell me how. How can I be that powerful?”
Distinct throwback to Gabriel telling Chandra that he knew he was meant for something special, although you have to wonder how Samuel can hear that he’s capable of killing millions and absorb the idea without so much as a moment’s hesitation. Even Sylar had ethical reservations about wiping out a city.
Joseph reveals that he contacted Željko in an effort to contain Samuel’s ability. It’s not clear whether that’s in response to Mohinder’s visit, or whether Joseph was planning to turn Samuel in anyway. But it’s enough of a betrayal for Samuel to slam a rock into his brother’s throat.
Goodbye, Joseph! We wish we could have gotten to know you better! You were a compelling character, and we hope to see you in many dreams and flashback sequences!
Samuel exhibits something resembling regret over killing his brother, but given that he now goes to Mohinder’s motel and kills him too, it’s difficult to see Samuel as anything other than a depraved monster.
So here we are, reeling from the revelation that Samuel murdered his brother in the middle of a field, and we cut to…
… Doug fainting.
Worse than the show cutting from 200,000 nuked civilians to Hiro and Ando wrestling over a belt buckle? I’d say it’s not quite as bad. This one at least claims some dignity by way of a playmate for Mr. Muggles, and Sandra glaring at Lauren, and yam euphemisms. Which I guess aren’t a whole lot to put forward in favor of this storyline, but if none of those raise the quality above mediocre, at least there’s Doug recalling how he discovered his pon-chaunt for dog breeding and asking if anyone thinks it earned him any friends. He says “Uh-uh,” but because it’s Doug and because Stratton has such a firm grasp on the character…
… it’s not so much a case of saying “Uh-uh” as enacting it.
Also, the scene has this working in its favor:
Was Claire’s announcement about dropping out of college meant to be a dramatic moment? The way it’s veiled with such humor, I couldn’t figure out if we were supposed to take it seriously. It’s not helped by the fact that we’ve barely seen Claire in class all season, and although the obvious reason for that is because it’s no fun to watch, the absence of anything akin to college life means that — at least from our perspective — Claire’s decision to abandon her college prospects will make very little difference. She might have to get an apartment and a job instead of hanging out in a dorm room, but besides that, will there be any discernible difference to the format for the story? Will there even be any difference for the character? Claire has never expressed any interest in academia, and she hasn’t been especially passionate about any subjects since her foray into reptilian anatomy.
You could argue that the one person it’ll make a difference to is Noah, whose pockets are now $40,000 lighter. But since that’s a tainted Company severance package, I’m more inclined to sympathize with Sandra, who spends this scene feebly asking Claire and Noah what’s going on, underscoring how peripheral she’s become since the previous volume and bringing the character back to where she started: which is to say, the role of a clueless, dog-loving ditz.
But at least she now has company. And, also? Aw.
Lauren tries to make amends with Sandra by joking that Doug has obviously “never seen a regen before.” Which, duh, but also HUH?! Lauren makes it sound like the world is teeming with immortals. Even if you buy that The Company tracked anyone besides Adam and Claire — and that’s a big if — it’s hard to believe that Noah would conceal that information from Claire. You also have to wonder how Lauren can be so laid-back about the idea of Claire regenerating when, the last time Noah and Lauren worked together, NOT EVEN THOMPSON KNEW ABOUT CLAIRE’S ABILITY. The implication was always that Noah kept Claire’s ability a secret until he went rogue, and by inserting Lauren into the backstory and establishing that she knows what Claire can do, the show is implying that Noah trusted a fellow Company employee with a secret he was determined to WITHHOLD from The Company at all costs. And, sure, it’s Lauren, and perhaps he trusted her with this tiny little secret. But if he was willing to Haitian-whammy Lyle when he discovered the truth, do you think he’d let Lauren go gallivanting off into the sunset with a secret like that?
Uh-uh!
Noah explains that Samuel is a killer and that one of the carnival members sliced him open and that Claire is being manipulated with the exact rhetoric she wants to hear.
And Claire… tells Noah to stop treating her like a child?
I must have missed something there. What part of killer and sliced open and manipulated does Claire not understand? I appreciate that Noah doesn’t say it in those words, but that’s the meaning, and by spurning his pleas to stay away from the carnival, Claire is effectively sanctioning the carnival’s actions and saying their villainy doesn’t matter as long as they make her feel welcome. If Noah is treating Claire like a child, IT’S BECAUSE SHE’S ACTING LIKE A CHILD!
But then…
WHY, show? WHYYYYYEEEEE?!
Hiro and Lydia teleport back to the present, apparently to the exact moment they left. With this level of control, I’m really confused over why Hiro can’t teleport back to the day Arnold snatched Charlie outside the diner and say, “Hey, Charlie, watch out for a creepy old guy who’ll be waiting for you outside the diner when you leave tonight.” Or, if he’s reluctant to derail that part of the timeline, why not just wait in an alley outside the diner with a mallet and conk time-traveling Arnie over the head before he has a chance to kidnap Charlie? It would probably kill the poor guy, but since he’s at death’s door anyway, it’s not like Hiro would be completely guilty of murdering him.
Where was I? Oh, yes.
Lydia emotes. Joseph’s death and Samuel’s villainy have disturbed Lydia in a deeply profound way. Or so the script suggests.
I’ve defended Dawn Olivieri on occasions when other fans accused her of wooden acting, and although I’ll maintain that she’s done her best with limited material, this is one instance when the actress failed to convey the character’s distress believably. In Olivieri’s defense, it’s not as if she has a whole lot to go on; we know next to nothing about Joseph or the dynamic between him and the rest of the carnival’s members, so when Lydia decides it’s time to take a stand against Samuel for killing Joseph, it’s a decision triggered by something so underdeveloped that it’s hard to know what’s motivating her. Is she upset because Joseph was a nice guy? Or because he inspired everyone at the carnival? Or because he wasn’t as happy to kill people as Samuel is? Or because he gave her a bigger share of the carnival’s takings? Or is it just that discovering Samuel’s role in Joseph’s death is upsetting enough in itself? As clearly as Joseph’s charisma and good intentions were depicted over the course of the past two episodes, nothing was conveyed with regard to his attachment to the other carnival members. Which is why it’s hard to gauge why Lydia is so upset.
Angela brings pie to the table, and there’s an unsettling moment when her hand rests on the knife and Sylathan covers her hand. Such a minute detail, but a moment that encapsulates what made the Sylathan storyline shine.
Sylathan: “Some family. You look at me, you don’t see your son — you see the man who killed your son.”
It’s more blunt than usual, even for an approximation of Nathan, but the real tip-off is the way he’s suddenly comfortable looking into Angela’s eyes.
Sylathan: “And you? You don’t see your brother. Well, that’s because I’m not your brother.”
Peter: “Nathan…”
Sylathan: “Guess again.”
Again, the ominous undertone is in the dialogue, but it’s in the subtlety of the performance that you realize what’s going on.
It’s mostly the intensity in the eyes, but Pasdar draws on mannerisms to define the distinction: a heavier emphasis on each word; a contemplative tilt of the head when he reminds Peter that he’s not his brother; a feigned attempt at regret when he tells Peter they shouldn’t have gone to Texas.
It’s horrifying for the spectacle, but also because you know that although Sylathan will put up a fight to hold onto his body, it’s the beginning of the end for the character.
But then, that’s surely where this storyline stumbles, because if we pause to consider the reality, we realize that this was NEVER Nathan in any shape or form. With that in mind, it’s hard to find any emotional resonance in the scene. I felt that Sylathan went a long way to redeeming both Nathan AND Sylar over the course of the past 10 episodes, but if the intention was to build up to this moment — when Sylar would find himself battling one of his victims for control of his own body — this scene falls flat because Sylar ISN’T battling one of his victims. He’s battling an imitation of one of his victims. He’s battling a knock-off. A facsimile. A phoney. A stand-in. An impostor. An approximation. Whatever you want to call him, Sylathan isn’t Nathan. And for that reason, and in spite of some dazzling visual effects and intense performances, the epic battle between the victim and his killer lacks the impact it seemed to be striving for.
But then, impact or not…
… Sylar’s back, b**ches!
How’s that for a hopeful message about nobility and self-sacrifice?
Howdy, folks! Nate P here! What an exciting couple of weeks! You’ve seen me fly in my sleepwear! You’ve seen me take a nap after I got drunk! And now you’ve seen me get electrocuted. They don’t make this stuff up!
Enjoy it while it lasts, my dear followers, because alas, I have to tell you that you may not have the chance to appreciate my smoldering physique for much longer. The Boss just paid us a visit down here — and from what I gather, those don’t often go well. It’s going to be a busy few days at the laundry for everyone, I can tell you that.
The Boss says he’s shipping me out of here. I’m not sure what he means by that, but it sounds like I’ll be traveling to and fro a lot, if you know what I mean. I guess good behavior counts for something, at least down here.
I can’t say I’m bothered by the commute because Petrelli Airways is booming. But I am concerned about what’ll happen to Team Petrelli in my absence. It’s one heck of an operation I’ve put together, and you wonderful fans have had the pleasure of watching me recruit my team, reconnect with the electorate and rediscover what it means to be a politician. And I mean that in the best possible sense — the one that involves not having any real policies, recruiting regardless of individual caliber, and assigning your distant, halfwitted brother to make balloons at the office. The thought that all this effort will go to waste breaks my already-dead heart, although I can’t say my heart will bleed any more than it did when I was poised for a nice redemption arc and someone decided it would be more fun to kill me off. Thanks for nothing!
I’m not bitter. I’ve had three glorious seasons to bask in your adoration. That poor German man didn’t even get three episodes. It could have been much worse.
Well, farewell, my dear fans. It’s been great telling you about my life down here. I’d like to take this moment to impart the wisdom I’ve gained during my time down here — wisdom which may one day prove useful to you. Firstly, there are lots of mightily pissed off people down here. Secondly, Sylar killed most of them. Thirdly, people end up here for the most ridiculous reasons. I met one guy last week who admitted to sitting in his car on a rainy day and playing the soundtrack to “American Beauty.” Can you believe that? “American Beauty” in the rain? There was also something about him burning a nurse’s arm and blowing up an FBI van, but come on: “American Beauty” in the rain? That’s just… Well, yes, I guess he does belong down here.
Lastly, there are worse ways to die than in a hotel suite, alone, without knowing whether your brother, wife, daughter and two sons will ever find out about it; or whether they’ll even be upset about it when they find out. So don’t be bitter, folks. It’s a bright, hopeful world up there.
Also, don’t cheat on your spouses. Don’t expect your children to like a beard you spent four months growing. Don’t set up ethically challenged government organizations. Don’t hit your brother with a pipe. Don’t try to outlast a frat boy in a drinking contest when you visit Mexico. And if you’re flying to Ireland, bring an umbrella. And if you decide to let your brother explode when he’s next to you, be sure to hold onto both of your shoes. And if you ever want to call a press conference, remember to bring a bulletproof vest. And whatever you do, never EVER try to use that joke about a talking dog. On anyone.
You’ll be fine!
Well, that’s it from me for this week, folks. Have a great week!
Surprisingly light humor amidst the tragedy, thanks in part to Sylar making the effort to pin a napkin to his shirt before tucking into the pie Angela brought.
Sylar: “I feel like I haven’t eaten in months. You think that’s some kind of existential soul thing?”
Peter: “You have a soul?”
Sylar: “Come on, buddy. No big speeches about hope? Triumph of the human spirit?”
Telling dialogue, because although Sylar’s mockery reveals his arrogance, it also reinforces the show’s depiction of a world where hope is futile, and where the human spirit is buried beneath false personalities and telekinetically-sliced throats.
Cristine again delivers a raw, affecting performance as the mother looking into the eyes of the man who killed her son. You can imagine how, if only on a subconscious level, a part of Angela’s hatred for Sylar also stems from the guilt that’s haunted her since the day she tried to eradicate him.
Sylar: “You have raised the evil incarnate bar to an entirely new level Thank you for giving me something to strive for.”
Is he just taunting her? Because like so many of Sylar’s deranged remarks, there’s a grain of truth in it, and you have to wonder whether Sylar would ever be capable of a ploy as grotesque and elaborate as the one we’ve come to know as the Sylathan Debacle.
Speaking of grotesque, look away now, and save yourself a bout of projectile vomiting.
Isn’t that the woman he once thought was his mother? Putting aside that Sylar’s kissing a woman he froze to the spot and whose son he slaughtered, doesn’t the fact that he’s kissing someone he once regarded as a parent make this even more appalling?
Poor Peter is forced to watch it happen, probably scarring himself for life with the trauma. As beautiful and professional as the actors are, and as warm as the camaraderie on the set is known to be, one can only imagine how difficult this scene must have been to shoot.
Sylar: “All this talk of souls and spirits has my head spinning. I am not a religious man, but there is one thing I do believe in: blood. Time to carve the turkey.”
“Not a religious man?” Subtle distinction between Gabriel’s early transition into Sylar and the monster who’s about to slice Angela’s head open. You’d think the man who scrawled “FORGIVE ME!” all over his hidden shrine would at least consider himself spiritual, but given the chasm between this entity and the watchmaker who dreamed of being special, it’s dialogue that comes across as intensely self-aware.
Angela once again comes moments away from getting her head sliced open. It’s a moment that gains suspense from the context, because you figure that if Sylar got away with slitting Nathan’s throat, it can’t be too much of a leap to imagine he’ll scalp the mom who ordered his mind to be separated from his body.
Sylar’s trigger-happy index finger is brought to a halt by Sylathan, who apparently regains control of Sylar’s body long enough to morph back into himself…
… and to stare at Angela with the look of disdain she so wholeheartedly deserves.
We return to Noah’s apartment, where Gretchen pretty much agrees to move back in with Claire, explaining that Claire is “the only one who’s ever made any sense to [her].” This despite a melodramatic exit on account of her fearing for her life. This despite the fact that the individual who killed Claire’s previous roommate and who nearly choked Gretchen to death is still alive. This despite the fact that, as Gretchen pointed out, Claire’s everyday life is a life-or-death struggle for her.
Maybe I’m digging deeper than I should to justify why this makes no sense. I’m not sure why I’m so resistant to it when Gretchen’s departure in the first place made even less sense. Thing is, Gretchen’s departure demonstrated how much of a walking plot device she’d become, and bringing her back is worse because it doesn’t even amount to a plot device. It’s completely extraneous. Claire could have snatched the compass out of Noah’s drawer, hopped into her own car and gone to the carnival without Gretchen. I’m going to give the show the benefit of the doubt and assume there’s a solid reason for Gretchen’s presence at the carnival, because if there isn’t, her reason for showing up at Noah’s door seems beyond pointless.
But, hey, walking plot device or not, they’re both thrilled at the opportunity to deceive Noah by heading off on “an adventure” (< < Claire’s ACTUAL dialogue!). Let’s hope this new-found initiative stands them in good stead when they end up in mortal danger and Noah has to come running with his M-16 to rescue them. And you can bet that when that time comes, NO ONE will berate Noah for treating them like children.
At the carnival, Samuel blames Edgar for Joseph’s death, and Hiro preempts Samuel’s attempt to kill Edgar by freezing time and persuading Edgar to run away. Edgar does, and although it’s easy to understand why he fled from a guy who was ready to use rocks as flying implements, it’s also somehow sad to think that instead of speedyzipping to Samuel and chopping him into pieces, Edgar opts to speedyzip in the opposite direction.
Damien shows up, and I have to say…
… it’s not completely clear to me what happened here. I got a glimpse of a few of the flashes: the Night of the Slushy Incident, Charlie, and several shots of butt-copying Tadashi. But is Damien wiping that stuff from Hiro’s memory and turning Hiro into Kid-Hiro the same way Arthur did, or is he restoring memories that Hiro already has? As suspenseful as this twist might be, I can’t help thinking it’s damaged by three things: firstly, the fact that it involves turning Hiro into the kind of nerd who’ll quote Sherlock Holmes and Star Trek before teleporting away to do whatever he wants. Secondly, that if the Kid-Hiro we met last season is anything to go by, Hiro’s character arc is really going to go downhill after the hiatus. Thirdly, that this cliffhanger of sorts involves us having no idea what actually happened, so it’s not so much about speculating about where it’ll lead as it is positing theories about what it involved in the first place.
On the bright side, Samuel clearly didn’t get the result he was counting on. It could be that that’s a sign of Damien’s unwillingness to go along with Samuel’s leadership. Or that Hiro’s simply too strong to be overcome by a Damien Whammy. If only Sylar had that much subconscious strength of will; we could have avoided the Sylathan Debacle before it even started.
I can’t call this a bad episode, because in many ways it was outstanding. It revealed the story leading up to Joseph’s death, it told a dramatic story involving Sylathan’s battle against Sylar, and it contained moments of wit and humor at Noah’s apartment.
But upon closer scrutiny, the faults beneath the surface become apparent: behavior which makes no sense, decisions which lack a rationale, and above all the requirement that we believe Nathan’s spirit and soul can be replicated with a Parkman Whammy and a few random memories. Judging from the previews and advance footage that have made their way onto the web, it looks like Sylathan will be the first one to concede that this is ridiculous. That’s at least a hopeful sign that the show’s writers are willing to concede that it’s ridiculous, and it’s a big part of the reason why the Sylathan storyline has been so fiercely and unanimously criticized since it was introduced. We’re expected to root for a character who’s dead, and we’re expected to feel invested in a character who, when you look at it objectively, is just a convincing approximation of a character who’s long gone.
But then, Peter’s optimism in the closing moments of the episode is one of the few hopeful moments on a show intent on reminding us that hope is for losers. The underlying message is that if you’re on Sylar’s team, you’re on the winning team. Malevolence and scheming win out over nobility, and self-preservation and cowardice prevail over self-sacrifice. And if you have an ability, it’s not something to be proud of: it’s something to resent, because apparently it leaves you with no options besides joining a group of people led by a depraved murderer.
Bottom line: as good as this episode is in places, it underscores why, even on a show entitled Heroes, it’s not a good time to be a hero. That’s a solid foundation for great drama, but it’s presenting an increasingly bleak picture of a world devoid of hope, and I can’t help wondering if that was ever the show’s intention.
3.5 out of 5
Great review as usual. Although I would at least give this episode a 4.5/5 rating.
Hey Otto. Good review.
I don’t quite agree with everything you said in this review. Most of the disagreements have to do with your description of the Sylathan “Debacle.” I honestly never saw this as a real debacle. Maybe i just never wanted to look to close, but whenever i saw Sylathan in trouble, i always felt it was happeneing to Nathan. Not some fascimile likeness of Nathan, not Sylar or Sylathan, but our Nathan. He always had his memories. He had his likenesses. He was a good guy who was trying to do the right things with his life. He was a guy trying to help a mother move on and bring closure, honest closure, to her daughters death. He was a guy scared that he was losing a grip on himself (which in a way he was) and his remaining family, and was tring to reconcile. He was a real person who was being over taken by a monster in this episode. He was a real person who was trying not to let a psychotic mass-murderer take control. It was his body, his self that he was fighting for. In my view it was Nathan being electrocuted and tortured. For me, the Sylathan storyline hasn’t been the epitomy of failed storylines. It was a good, heartfelt story that made you think.
But, i digress. Think whatever you will. Whatever can be said, we will miss Adrian Pasdar. On to other matters. Is Claire being childish? Hell yes. But the thing is, i can kind of understand her reasoning behind wanting to go and see Samuel. I think Claire has been going to classes (after all, in the episode you mentioned Claire did seem to be more involved in the class than anyone else, not that she could show it then. Not that it was very hard to answer that question) so it’s not like she is just jumping ship without spwnding some time with Option A. It’s just natural to check out Option B, to see if there is any chance that it will be a life you would be better off with.
One last note. I think that Damien was supposed to erase Hiro’s knowledge of Joseph’s true death. Without that knowledge to push Hiro over the rebellious edge, he would be much more complacent. I don’t have the slightest clue what Damien actually did to him though. Maybe he is going to back to Yamagato and get his super-charger friend involved in the hunt for Charlie and his war against Samuel. Just a view: everyone on the show is becoming sort of like their future versions. Peter is probably going to suffer a loss of hope and become the dark future version. Hiro is becoming driven to some dark corners. Nathan is about to be truly dead. Sylar is going ot be given full reign (unfortunately). Maybe, when the show has run its course, what will wind up happening is that the original future will come to pass. That would blend in well with the ‘no hope’ motto. No matter what they did, it all lead back to that dark future where they all get screwed (except Sylar). Here’s hoping they figure out a way to divert the future for the better. Sorry for all the ranting. Happy Thanksgiving.
Hey Otto, great review, but once again, we seem to have differing opinions- especially when it comes to Sylathan. i must be in the minority but, although there are the rare times we’re jarringly reminded that Sylathan is not the hero we know and love, Pasdar’s performance and presence are so great that i’m constantly pulled into believing i’m watching the genuine article- even when i should/do know better. The Sylathan Story(especially the last 3 episodes of it) has- to me- been Pasdar’s best storyline since he almost blew up New York. I would give this one a 4.5 out of 5. Outstanding episode that is only marred by the lack of characterization within the carnival- and of course, by Gretchen. Like you said, you can’t even respect her as a plot device anymore. Oh, and that shot with Samuel and Joseph in the cornfield and the moonlight with the camera continually pulling back? I never wanted it to end. :).
wonder if i’m going to be the first to post? Happy Thanksgiving!
Good review, Otto. A couple things:
Ted probably wasn’t referring to the soundtrack to the film “American Beauty”, he was probably referring to the Grateful Dead album. Confusing, I know, to people who prefer good film over hippie music (which is most people). But Ted kinda strikes me as hippie-ish - at least aesthetically (not so much the revenge and blowing stuff up part).
Also, I’m glad to mentioned how Sylathan was never Nathan. As much as I hated the second half of last season’s finale, this storyline has won me over a bit as well, thank mostly to some killer acting. But I think it really needs to be established on the show how pathetic the Petrellis are for fighting for someone who is only, like you said, an imitation.
All that said, I really enjoyed seeing the real Sylar’s return, and Quinto’s overly theatrical performance. He looked like he was really relishing it. Sure, his taunting of Peter can be seen as a triumph for negativity and evil, but I saw it as a hilarious in-joke and perfect satirizing of the endlessly positive emo-kid. Nicely done, Quinto, nicely done.
Pete, thanks for pointing out the Grateful Dead option.
I’m a dork, so I double-checked, and Ted’s exact words in 1.07 are, “We sat in my car and listened to the whole American Beauty album,” so I think it could be either (or BOTH!). I agree that there was a certain hippie-ish free spirit to the guy, but I can’t imagine Ted striving for a romantic moment at the beach in the pouring rain with… Grateful Dead. (Sorry — nothing against the band!)
A sentimental piano theme still strikes me as the more likely possibility.
Okay, you know how you thought that this ep has a bunch of dirty euphemisms?
I can see the canned yams thing, but in the Hiro and Semi!Naked!Lydia thing didn’t Hiro TURN AROUND and say “You are trying to seduce me” and “My heart belongs to Charlie”???
Also, when Sylar kissed Angela it reminded me of Mel Gibson in ‘Hamlet.’ A scene was edited from the original play so that Hamlet kisses his mother (Glenn Close). It kinda had that same scarring effect. But reason they did that was because of Freud’s (almost totally discredited) idea about the Oedipus Complex: that every man is in love with his mother.
So maybe that’s why that happened. I don’t know.
And yes, this episode had a particularly hopeless tone to it. It made me wonder why the NBC Heroes page background is now blue sky and clouds instead of a wreckage and… black.
Great review, Otto!
I agree with most of the comments you made regarding Sylathan. It’s frustrating to see Peter wanting to believe his brother is still alive, still there, but I guess that’s just him in denial. Next week will give us a better feel on where he’s coming from.
… a hopeful sign that the show has moved beyond using Hiro as the perennial clown.
Let’s hope so, but then it wouldn’t surprise me to see him going back to that role once he’s reunited with Ando.
But Peter’s reaction rarely suggests anything resembling grief or anger, and those are the emotions I was hoping we’d see.
Going by the promo photos for the next ep, we should be seeing those emotions. And if we do and Milo’s performance lives up to Adrian’s praise, I will be an emotional wreck after the episode.
It’s like the two of them are half-hiding behind a wall — literally and figuratively, from each other and from the truth. Subtle, but the kind of thing director Seith Mann was probably aiming for when he shot the scene.
Love that.
… underscoring how peripheral she’s become since the previous volume and bringing the character back to where she started: which is to say, the role of a clueless, dog-loving ditz.
Awww, that’s sad.
As for Lauren knowing about Claire’s ability, did she? Or is it just a case of knowing there are people with abilities and then just not being surprised at seeing Claire heal?
Samuel and Joseph’s confrontation in the field was very artistically done. It was very cool.
Well, just one more episode before the break. I sure hope what is sure to be a heart-breaking scene doesn’t disappoint. I’ve read comments from former fans saying they were going to tune in just to see Adrian’s final scene.
I’m looking forward to next week’s review.
Thanks for posting this.
P.S. Did you have a good Thanksgiving?
I agree with what you said about Noah/Claire scenes, and about the carnival scenes, but I can’t agree with the Sylathan comments. I think that it is some of the best stuff Heroes has come up with in along while and Pasdar has been lucky to get such material. Every time I see Nathan, who we know is dead, I see Nathan, not some approximation. His reactions to his death and how he keeps telling everyone how “he” is dead keeps making me believe that its not just memories because it seems too self aware. Whether thats just the writers or not it comes across as actually being Nathan and that lends strength to the story line. If it was intended to come across as purely fake I don’t think we would get the nuances that we get in the differences between the two who inhabit the body. Even with memories I don’t think the mannerisms would be as accurate and there quite possibly would not be such self awareness.
As for Sylar bashing on hope and the human spirit in his characteristic cynicism and mockery, I though it was priceless. It just goes to show you that all the crap that was thrown at him in life has eroded his sense that there is anything worth believing in. When you consider that he watched himself get sold to his uncle before watching his father murder his mother then yeah someone could be a little messed up. Then compound it with said uncle abandoning him and leaving him with a pushy, clingy aunt who ends up rejecting him in the end anyway you can understand why he might not be so positive. Of course it doesn’t end there. There is the fact that every time he did something good he was reprimanded (like when he saved Claire from a black hole) or told he was going to die alone. He even tried to be a good person, but instead of being supported or told the truth, Noah tried to kill him, and Angela and Arthur lied to him because he just made a dutiful, powerful lackey who is quite effective (don’t all super-villains wish their henchmen were that awesome). When that is all considered its not surprising why Sylar no longer just wants to be special. He’s angry, resentful, bitter, cynical and vengeful. (Although him also being a sociopathic psychopath doesn’t help either, but that just means that pissing him off is definitely detrimental to your health.) Of course he’s going to laugh at all the hope Peter believes in. To him it doesn’t exist. I believe that the character has always had an awareness about the situations and characters in the show above what the other characters didn’t and the writers almost prove it in that scene. He’s right in pointing out how bleak the world is, and he’s right in pointing out that what Angela did was worse than anything he could have come up with.
As for kissing Angela I viewed it as this mix of mockery and spitting in Peter’s face. Peter would have surely been aware of the whole “Sylar Petrelli” incident, so I’m shocked he didn’t end up throwing up just a little bit.
Now on to Peter. So much that bothered me, but not with the writing. I love Peter, more so than I have even previously, but he really needs to start getting his perceptions about his family straight. First he believes he must be a good guy to atone for his family’s sins and runs around like a mad man trying to cover their moral quota, but then something like what happens this episode happens. He seems to forget what Angela did by the time Sylar has tried to slice her head open and Sylathan has ran off. There Peter is holding a cloth to her head asking if she is okay and saying that he will bring Nathan back. (An interesting parallel to him trying to slice her head open and Sylar asking if she’s okay, but not the focus of this conversation.) Did he just miss the fact that I’ve-chosen-to-be-evil Sylar has just made the observation that Angela is friggin Satan? Or how about Nathan’s temporary resurfacing in which he asked “What have you done to me?” Peter was approaching her about it at the beginning of the episode, but at the end…. oh Peter. It is something he’s done with Nathan a dozen times and its always bothered me. Its not that Peter doesn’t make up his mind, its that he can’t let them go because they are his family despite tazering him and locking him up, or being promised no more secrets before lying about his brother’s death. Its almost as if Sylar is who he views as the embodiment of pure, unjustifiable evil when he was raised by those who have committed such acts. He is either in extreme denial where he knows the answer, but won’t admit it, or he is not very self aware. I rather go for denial since Peter has “hope”, but it makes me wonder if that is what holds him back from seeing the truth.
Totally can’t wait till next week.
Great review, Otto.
Happy Thanksgiving.
“Miss Lovegood” is an abbreviation for “Dame Penelope Gene Lovegood III.” Is that to say that “Mr. Muggles” is an abbreviation for something too? Trivia that you hope will one day be revealed, but it’s peripheral to the response the show expertly elicits from everyone in the audience: a unanimous, wholehearted aw.
I think it should be Penelope Jean. Gene is typically the masculine spelling.
When the budget cuts became apparent, you speculated that we wouldn’t see Lestat/Muggles again, because dog food and trainer are expensive. First, I’m glad you were wrong. But, I’m wondering if bringing in a second dog meant they hadn’t the money for Bentley and had to prioritize. If so, I’m glad. I’m all for extra cuteness. You’d think a show struggling in the ratings would give the adorable dogs with more charisma than some of the human characters they’ve forced on us additional screen time. But, what do I know?
Thank you for your great review Otto. It was very nice of you to take time to post this tonight.
Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but at one point I found myself continue to read stuff on my laptop once the show returned from an ad break. Not a good sign! I don’t know why (predictability perhaps?), but I am feeling a little fatigued by the “three parallel/thematically similar, but not directly interconnected stories, character wise or location wise, per episode” format. Maybe that’s why the Texas episode was so nice, because it had a distinct main story, with a subplot happening in the same vicinity? It would be nice if the show switched up the format formula a bit more, to avoid it starting to feel stale.
Anyway, I found myself wishing we’d gotten (much) more time with the Petrellis, since at this point I _really_ want to sink my teeth into the resolution of the Sylathan story, and it feels like they’re draaaaagggggiiiinnnngggg it out for as long as possible, bordering on soap-opera style. Here’s hoping next week really goes somewhere beyond simple revelations. Oh, and some real strong emotions would be nice too, just so we can finally get out what we’ve been denied since last year’s finale (Hey, _I_ want to move on! It’s been months!!). Also, I second the kudos to Ms. Rose, she was simply heartbreaking.
That scene, where Peter and Angela are sitting at the table, being taunted by Sylar also had me feeling for poor Peter, who used to be soooo strong, and you’re just wishing that Sylar accidentally touches him - which he of course doesn’t. Then Sylar starts slicing up Angela, and I immediately pictured Sylar picking through her dead brain, with Peter stuck there watching it. Now _that_ was a disturbing thought. All in all, powerful stuff, and such a pity we didn’t get moooore.
Bennet’s party had some fun moments, and carried on the ever popular Oh, Ain’t Thanksgiving Awkward-tradition. I can’t say that I particularly cared, since most of the characters are feeling lost and don’t have anything terribly compelling to do besides surviving thanksgiving dinner. I didn’t mind Sandra’s pick of boyfriend, he looked like an everything-the-other-guy-isn’t rebound-guy to me. I also don’t have a problem with her having a boyfriend so soon. Some people don’t deal well alone, particularly after living with somebody else for eons. I agree though that it’s strange that Sandra’s been so out of Claire’s life. I find that more disturbing than the boyfriend.
Regarding the carnival, I’d imagine Edgar would have been quickly executed by his fellow carnivalers if he’d gone after Samuel. That and Hiro would have disapproved, since he “needs” Samuel alive. I wonder where Edgar’s gone though, does he have any blood-family…? I’m as clueless as you are about Lydia’s power, but I got the sense that Hiro was the one jumping in time. Especially since it took him a few tries to get back to the present. Regarding Hiro jumping in time/space to fix the Charlie-debacle, I guess he either doesn’t trust himself with his ability, or he’s just that un-imaginative/stupid. Also, second the kudos for the glorious shot of the brothers in the field.
Now on to other things. People have mentioned that the show appears to be slowly moving to the bleak future shown in previous seasons - and specifically that Samuel could be powerful enough to split the Earth. But during that time, wasn’t it true that everybody had gotten abilities, so Samuel would have had the entire population to feed off of? Hasn’t that future been called off now? But yeah, Hiro seems to be moving towards gravitas, although who knows what Not!Haitian did to him?!
Also, I agree with you that Samuel’s character appears to have devolved a bit. It sure would be nice if somebody out there in internet-land would cut up the episodes so that one could see the states-of-Samuel in correct time order… Maybe one day…
Other than that, I’m very much looking forward to next week’s episode (Payoff? Finally?), and I’m both sad and relieved that we won’t get any more Heroes until Jan 4th. It’s been a tumultuous ride this fall, and it’ll be nice to take a break to put things back into perspective, but darnit, I’ll still miss them!
I also don’t have a problem with her having a boyfriend so soon. Some people don’t deal well alone, particularly after living with somebody else for eons.
But, Sandra should handle being alone. Even when she didn’t know the truth, she accepted that Noah’s job required lots of travel, leaving her alone a lot, and she seemed content with that basic logistical reality.
Sure, but she’s been keeping a home for all these years. For multiple people. I don’t see her going from the busy bustle of home-keeping to eating take-out and cereal for dinner like HRG. Plus, it’s logical for her to have thrown herself into dog-showing like never before, where she kept meeting Mr. Dorky, and decided he’d soften the hard landing. All in all it’s a minor plot point though. Like I said, I think it’s worse that she’s been written out of Claire’s life, but then again, isn’t that what collage is supposed to be about - severing the parental umbilical cord? Why Claire insists on doing laundry at her dad’s is perhaps a more vexing question…
That’s what’s confusing. In the premiere, Sandra let Claire stay with her after Annie’s murder, and it was Sandra who informed Noah of what happened. She was written as in Claire’s life then, but not since. Basically, her writing is erratic.
Yup, agree with you on the erratic writing. Maybe it just comes down to logistics of writing stories for so many people, and the writers have more stuff to work with through Claire+HRG rather than Claire+Sandra? Now that they’re divorced, there aren’t a lot of venues/events where you’d expect to see both HRG and Sandra, thus Sandra sadly takes a back seat?
Hey Otto. Excellent review. We were definitely on the same wavelength with this one. LOL.
This episode was good, but could have been better. I definitely had the “Very special episode” feeling in this one. I think that they could have done without the Bennett Thanksgiving and focused more on the Petrellis’ & the Carnival.
“On the other hand, you wonder how, so soon after the end of her [Sandra's] marriage, she could enter into a new relationship…This is not the way Sandra was portrayed over the course of the previous four volumes.”
Yes, yes, and more yes. This whole plot just reeked of WTF? I also couldn’t buy Sandra & Noah being in the “we’re friends” stage so soon after the divorce. This wasn’t a little hookup, but a 22 year marriage, and one of the strongest relationships on the show. Her bringing a date just felt so out of character, not to mention tacky. Doug was clearly played for laughs, but even that sucked, because he’s such an obvious contrast to Noah, which for Sandra, is probably the appeal.
I know this would have made no sense, but I was hoping that Lauren & Doug would hook up for some random reason and run off together, ridding us of their characters forever, and pushing Noah and Sandra back together. Two birds with one stone!
The Petrelli Thanksgiving was a mixed bag for me. Brilliant performance by Cristine Rose, which made the scene wonderful. I missed her. However, the end fell flat for me for 2 reasons: Peter’s lack of reaction to the death of his brother. I was really looking forward to seeing him flip out (does that sound wrong?) but in this episode, we get nothing. Last week made sense because Peter was in denial, but in this episode, Peter learns in one fell swoop that not only was his brother murdered by the man sitting next to him, but that their mother was involved. There was no room for denial now. But no tears, no shouting or hysteria from Peter, and I think I know why: I don’t believe that Nathan’s soul is actually in Sylar’s body. I never thought it was. You said it yourself: it’s an imitation, so when Angela was telling Nathan to fight Sylar, I was thinking “What exactly is Sylar fighting?” Nathan’s memories? His personality? Nathan’s consciousness died with his body; someone’s memories are not the same thing as their mannerisms and quirks. But for the sake of the show, I’ll overlook it because at this point, it’s confusing enough. The reason this effects Peter is because he’s fighting a fruitless battle for Nathan when we know that Nathan really doesn’t exist anymore. This makes Peter’s fight even more pathetic (and I don’t say that to be cruel) because he’s so unaware of what is really going on.
Carnival Thanksgiving: Well, at least we know what happened to poor Joseph. Sad we only knew him so briefly. I hate to say it, but I really wanted to beat the crap out of Hiro near the end. His concern for Charlie is bordering on tunnel vision; he can’t see what Samuel can do to everyone else. I think he needs Ando, who would at least offer him another perspective.
But for the love of all that’s holy, if they mind-wipe Hiro into “Wow-I’m-ten-years-old-and-I’m-dumb-as-a-rock!” again, I’ll be too p*ssed for words.
I have to respectfully disagree on Dawn Olivieri, though. I think she showed a lot of improvement in this episode, but this is the first I’m seeing of it. I was rooting for her, especially in the light that she could be a strong female character, considering how male dominated Heroes is. But she just doesn’t bring much to the table. I don’t buy into the “she doesn’t have enough to work with” reason because there are actors on the show who have had less to go from and still manage to bring considerable talent. Take Swoosie Kurtz, or Christine Adams (the therapist in Hysterical Blindness). Both actresses gave genuine, compelling performances with significantly less screen time and even less background on their characters. Ray Park (Edgar) may come across as a jealous boyfriend, but even he’s shown more emotion and depth. Olivieri’s been on the show since the season premiere and this is the first time when I thought she actually belonged there. But if she can continue to bring what she did in Thanksgiving, then I’ll give her a shot.
Gretchen’s return…eh, it didn’t bother me, but I like Gretchen. I’m curious to see where her relationship with Claire will go, but I still think that she has some other intention for Claire besides romance.
Next week should be better. I hope its better. I really want it to be better.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
“…I was really looking forward to seeing [Peter] flip out (does that sound wrong?)… “
You’re not the only one, and no, I don’t think that’s wrong - I think that’s the way it’s been set up - and I have to admit that waiting for emotional fireworks has gotten me to the point that I’m studying the guy for hints to his emotions! All I can come up with this week is that at the beginning of the episode he’s coming around to thinking that Parkman may have been telling the truth. Then mom walks in, so he asks her point blanc, and is on pins and needles, as shown when Nathan grabs mom’s arm. Then when Angela tells the truth, instead of thinking Peter is sympathizing with her (like Otto did), I read it as the cold hard truth hitting him like a cold shower. Then things quickly spin out of control, and it becomes a survival game, and Peter is frustrated and perhaps a bit panicked. When Peter and Angela both start calling out for Nathan is when things get weird for me, but maybe that’s just because I know stuff about Head!Sylar, Body!Sylar and Head!Nathan, that they don’t. How are they to know what Parkman really did? Finally, the last scene felt a bit forced, like it’s setting up the next episode rather than being logical.
So yes, it’s been a long time waiting for Peter to really throw a much deserved fit. But then again, the whole premise to Peter of this season seems to have been that he’s decided to be very very guarded in his emotions (”closed off”) towards his old friends and family, mostly as a survival mechanism after being shot, stabbed, killed, and manipulated by his entire immediate clan. The only crack in the armor has appeared in the presence of Emma (Hey, she’s new! Seems harmless!), but that hasn’t really amounted to much yet. And thus… we wait yet another week…
Great review again, Otto!
Unfortunately, this was the first episode after Volume 3 that made me feel I’m losing my faith in the series. That’s simply because nothing big ever seems to happen. It was the moment when Sylar returned that I am very disappointed in. Sylar’s return could have been a glorious act, really changing things, a turning point for the plot. For example, he could have killed Angela (as sad as it would have been as she’s a great character). Or he could have wiped his mind of Nathan, finally ending that storyline. But neither of this happened. In fact, I felt that Nathan is even stronger now than he was before. Sylar is now stronger, too, but that will probebly change eventually, as it does every few episodes. We get more of the same, every episodes seems to be a build-up to some great life-changing event, but nothing really happens.
Hiya there
Great review, as always. I’ll agree that the episode itself was outstanding, but when you take things into perspective, those *small* details will drag it down unfortunately. On the other hand, we can assume that it would the episode that, while we have problems with it, is perfect for casual/non-religious viewers, so maybe that will bring some ratings in. I’m not talking about “character assasination”, but the idea is there, in a lesser degree.
Bennets/Lauren/Doug/Mr.Muggles :
- Considering it was played mostly for laughs, I don’t have much to reproach to this part of the episode, which was awesomely awekward.
- On the downside, I kind of hate the conclusion. Gretchen is back, so I guess Claire is planning to go back to college after all since her *so-important* 2 months-old friend is back. Also, while seeing Claire being proactive and going to see Samuel, but doing it after learning he is potentially (after all maybe she doesn’t take newspapers as proofs) a mass murderer, makes her look either careless, either dumb.
Petrellis/Sylar :
- Somehow glad we’re reaching a conclusion to the Sylathan thing. Cristine Rose is finally back, and outside the rooting for Not-Nathan to overpower Sylar, the prestation was close to phenomenal. Real creepy Sylar is back, but I kinda doubt he’ll be gone until next season, if there is a next season.
- But, I have the same problems than you have with the situation, for the simple reason that the Sylathan thing was dumb from the start, even if, for most of the season, they played the cards very well. I wouldn’t have that kind of problem, if by example, someone put Nathan in Sylar’s body the way Future Peter put Present Peter in Jess’s body. At least a duel over the control of the body would have made sense, but I’m not buying it, at all.
- Another downside would be Peter’s reaction. There’s a point where I hope he’ll stop being that naive but I don’t know if it will never happen. So far, I don’t see him getting away from Angela, even after everything she did. Like you said, it seems he can’t be made at his family for long, except for his father, even though we don’t know why he hated him or what he wanted to do.
Carnivale/Hiro :
- For Hiro, I don’t have those problems you have with hime not time-travelling for snatching Charlie before Samuel does. I pretty much thought he can time-travel, but can’t control it since he got his powers back.
- For Samuel, mixed bag. For the moment, I’m still thinking more than “The Guy Who Killed His Brother Because He Wants More Power”. I’ll reserve judgement untill we know his ultimate goal. Unfortunately, I agree, that his characterisation has flip-floped. I still prefer back when we saw a Samuel that was putting his family ahead of everything, and at some degree the whole superpowered population, rather the power-hungry bastard that uses his said family to gain more power.
- Joseph/Samuel : Word on the way Sam directly killed Suresh after killing his own brother… That said, I would say that if Samuel is that evil now, is kind of a combination of the events. In some way, Joseph never really trusted him even if he loved him. He just assumed if he knew about his ability he would be evil/killing people and eventually, he sold him out to the government. He was somehow pre-destined to be a villain because of how he was raised, a bit like Sylar back then. Again, I’m still hoping there’s a greater goal than him gettin more power over his story arc, even though the fact that he actually isn’t going after revenge is a big drawback for me.
- Ultimately, Samuel has a backstory, but it’s unfortunate that we were more compelled when we thought Danko killed his brother.
- Since some of us predicter he would, it’s nice to see Edgar flipping side, but am I the only one thinking he’ll end up dead anyway ? Considering that every not white-as-snow-non-regular characters and up dead even when they’re trying to change, that wouldn’t surprise me that much.
All in all, I hope for them next episode gets unanimious advices, else, that one month hiatus could literraly kill the show…
Small side note, word on a point you mentionned.
Considering this may be the last season, I’m kinda pissed we didn’t see so far some old characters.
- Heidi/Simon/Monti, since Nathan is dead, or at least since he was shown on TV being shot.
- Molly just to know she didn’t vanish.
- I don’t know where they’re taking Hiro, but I’m still hoping to see at least PapaSulu, or even Mama Sulu.
- That 1977 Flashback doesn’t seem to be planned for this season. I agree though that it would be out of context if they don’t plan to show us that new company.
To continue a discussion you guys started last week, I would agree that if there is a 5th season, a 5YG/IABD combined feel really compelling to me right now. The show has already gone a darker path, which is totally (ironically) refreshing, and the ways things are played out, some of the characters’ evolution are heading the right way. Hoping the season finish on a bang (not a cliff-hanger bang though), at least to leave lots of windows opened for a potential next-season/whatever follow-up there could be.
Great review, as always. You know, I’m starting to wonder if all the problems with the Sylar/Nathan stuff come from bad writing in the way Parkman did the “whammy” initially. He told Sylar he was Nathan Petrelli, it’s clear Parkman can (whether consciously or unconsciously) remove consciousness from a body by the fact that Sylar was inside Matt for so long.
They would have been better off having it *ACTUALLY* be Nathan’s consciousness struggling for control of Sylar’s body instead of blatantly stating he’s a pooka living in Sylar’s head.
The Bennett storyline continues to drag forward, I don’t really get your joy over them (since the whole family is obnoxious), but whatever. Heroes has become a 20 minute show for me: watch the Petrelli’s & the Carnival, fast forward through the Bennetts… thankfully they’ve dropped most of the other excessive people over the years
Not that I’ve seen this yet, but what if Damien was suspicious about Samuel’s doings of late and read Hiro’s mind to find out what he knew? It would play into the changing-of-allegiances that seems to be happening at the carnival…
For a show called HEROES, you’d think they’d have some light/dark hope/despair contrast, rather then grey-grey-grey-grey-grey. Don’t get me wrong, morally grey is a great addition to the mix… come on, give us _something_!
Forgive the gamer reference… as glad as I am to see Gretchen back as Claire’s sidekick, I get the feeling the writer’s are rolling dice on some random plot device table to determine what she does from one scene/episode to the next.
Thanks again, and here’s hoping there’s hope not only for redemption but season five+.
Great review as always, Otto.
I’m curious, though, if Sylar eventually does completely-reemerge and the Sylathan personality is completely obliterated, what is the show going to do with Sylar? What is going to stop him from going back to his old plan of trying to become the President? All he has to do is go touch him, and poof, Sylar is the president.
I haven’t read any spoilers, (so the following is just what I want to happen) but I’m hoping Sylar/Sylathan will end going back to carnival. Perhaps a Sylar/Sylathan battle against a super-powered Samuel, where both Samuel and Sylar/Sylathan die at the end? That would be good redemption for Sylar (or Nathan, depending on whoever’s in control of the body at the time).
It seems most of the storylines are converging on the carnival. Claire and Gretchen are going there, and Noah’s sure to follow. Tracy is going there. Hiro is already there (let’s hope he has not become 10 year-old Hiro again, and he returns to the carnival with Ando). Sylar/Sylathan has been there before, so he might remember it. Peter has heard about the carnival from his work with Noah, has battled Edgar before (maybe Edgar went to get Peter?), and he heard about the carnival again from Sylathan. Also, apparently the carnival was trying to recruit Emma from the cello they placed in her apartment.
I’m curious.
I’ve found the reviews to be fun and engaging, so thanks for that, but I’m wondering why you’re (apparantly) happy to see “Ghost-Sylar” as the real Sylar — the mind “separated from his body” and now returned — yet insist that Sylathan isn’t Nathan?
Why view the mind and memories as the true person in one instance but not the other? Surely either both Ghost-Sylar and Sylathan are artificial constructs, or neither of them are?
Guy, welcome, and thank you for reading.
I see Ghost-Sylar as Sylar without a body. He’s Sylar’s consciousness without corporeal form. Sylathan, by contrast, is an imitation. There’s nothing that ties him to Nathan besides physical appearance and memories. Sylathan is the product of brainwashing and falsely accumulated memories (”false” in the sense that Sylathan never actually experienced what he remembers).
One could (hypothetically) argue that memories constitute a personality, a soul, a spirit, a consciousness — whatever you want to call it. I don’t agree, and that, at least to me, is where the distinction lies. There’s nothing about Sylathan to convince me that he’s Nathan besides the fact that he looks like Nathan and can remember the stuff that Nathan has done.
One of the points I tried to make in this review is that it’s a controversial topic, and it comes down to everyone’s own perspective. If people believe that Sylathan has become more than the sum of his parts, I respect that, because it’s a valid point of view, and the debate about what constitutes a soul is the kind of theological debate that I wish the show had explored in more detail. But from my point of view, I don’t agree that memories and physical appearance add up to the same as a person’s consciousness, and I don’t believe they’re enough to transform a brainwashed, shapeshifting killer into the guy he killed. That, to me, is where the whole “Nathan — you’re in there! Fight Sylar! Take control!” moment lost the impact that it should have had. From my point of view, Nathan is not in there.
Hope that makes some kind of sense…?
Great review, but I think you’re being a tad too hard on it. I personally thought that this was the best episode of the season. You go on a whole spiel about Lauren’s ‘he’s never seen a regen before’ comment, but I seriously just assumed that she’s seen other regens before. She may not have necessarily known that Claire was a regen, I thought she didn’t know but reacted calmly because she’s seen other regens before and it’s no big deal. You’re acting like Adam and Claire are the only regens the Company has ever found, which is reeeeeaaaallly hard to believe. Also, you claim that Claire leaving college wouldn’t make a difference since we’ve never seen her in class, but remember in your own review for Ink, you made note that Claire was doing homework and at least trying to make use of her tuition. The whole Hiro and Lydia dirty thing was funny, but once again you’re being a tad too hard on it since Hiro did point out that she was trying to seduce him and his heart belonged to Charlie. You didn’t even point out that ‘aww’ moment. Also, you say that Samuel’s arc is undermined, but I don’t see it that way. Yes, before that we assumed that he was trying to strengthen his family, but there’s nothing undermining about him using his family to make him stronger. If anything, it makes him an even stronger character (both literally and figuratively). I always saw Synathan as a form of Nathan and not just an imitation.
Once again, great review, but you’re being a tad too hard on it. You focused on all the wrong details IMO. I would’ve given it at least a 4, probably a 4.5.
But I’m being too critical of your review. It was still hilarious and I still look forward to your reviews every week.
Mike, welcome, and thank you for the kind words. I’m genuinely thankful for the critique, so please don’t worry about being overly critical. I’m glad you liked the episode.
“You’re acting like Adam and Claire are the only regens the Company has ever found, which is reeeeeaaaallly hard to believe.”
I’m not sure it’s that much of a stretch. I was basing that assumption on a number of things. First, there’s Angela’s scene with Matt in 2.09, when she describes how The Company discovered that Adam’s regeneration made him immortal. It’s possible that The Company came across regeneration before then, and that Adam was a special case because he was the first one they’d had access to over an extended period of time. But given the enormous importance The Company placed on bringing Claire in after her ability came to light, and given the emphasis Bob placed on harvesting Claire’s blood, I got the impression that it was a very rare ability.
I think there’s also support for that perspective in the fact that HRG has never once alluded to another regen. Given the times Claire has asked her father about the way her ability works (I’m thinking especially of the scene at Copy Kingdom in 2.02), and given the way Claire has constantly expressed her sense of alienation in front of her father, I find it hard to believe that HRG is sitting on the news that there are dozens of regens out there. If there were, I think HRG would have told Claire about them and given her a chance to meet someone who really is just like her, as opposed to someone who’s just similar by virtue of having an ability.
Also, there is the scientific perspective on immortality that Mohinder could give. Logically, regens are rare precisely because they are immortal. If there were a lot of them, relative to the overall population, they would use up resources, even more so than the billions of mortals already on the planet whose lives have been prolonged by medical advances. If they live essentially forever, then they consume essentially forever, destabilizing the ecosystem. Death is the best population control mechanism to salvage global resources. Therefore, nature will limit the number of people who can cheat death.
Otto, I think that the point of Mama Petrelli’s threat was that if she leaves, and never comes back again, Peter and Nathan will never know what really happened.
I think that Peter is desperate to hold on to whatever remains of his brother- that’s why he’s treating Sylathan like the real Nathan. Hopefully, next week’s episode will deal with this.
I think that Claire thinks that Samuel might not really be a murderer, that the killings were committed by someone else with similar powers. That could have been made a bit more clear in the episode. Again, hopefully next week’s episode will deal with this.
As for Gretchen returning to the campus, she might have missed Claire, or, if she found out about Samuel promising to keep Becky in check, believed Samuel. That doesn’t explain why she didn’t move back in with Claire, though.
Good review as usual! Well, personally, I really liked that you refer to something I haven’t been thinking. That is that hope and goodness are being erased in Heroes-verse…villains win and good heroes must be tough to save the world…but I think that they are not going to save the world…Peter never wins…it’s just Sylar… and Hiro is being tortured by a psicopath Samuel. This sad vision of the world, Watchmen way, is really worrying me…if they are returning to season 1, hope must stay and win.
The episode was OK and nice for me, because I wasn’t expecting development, and it had some development.
About Petrellis…Angela keeps being the master manipulator and Peter, I fear he hasn’t accepted the loss of his brother or his mother’s tricks. Unfortunately, acceptance is the fifth stage and that means that till next week, we won’t see it. On the other hand, Sylar-Angela kiss was one of the creepiest thing I’ve seen in this series after 4 years…some kind of evil movement…when you think that Gabriel thought almost for a volume that he was his son…I don’t know, I thought about evil mothers and lunatic men…I don’t know, in a Caligula way. Poor Peter.
Carnies…I got a little tired of Hiro’s ‘I want Charlie…this…Charlie, that…Charlie’, and it was a bit embarrasing the use of Lydia as ‘femme fatale’…fortunately, everything changed after Joseph’s murder (something I suspected), and Edgard runs away, to where??? We’ll know, I hope we get answers, as well as to know what happened to Hiro…I don’t want a 10 year old Hiro again…we need future badass Hiro…but I don’t know.
Bennets. I liked HRG, Lauren, Sandra and Doug, even if he’s a tool. Claire was bratty and annoying again and Gretchen can be invited by HRG, but why should she accept? I don’t know. I felt HRG stalked Lauren, who I still pity because the moment he shows his ’sprint’ phone, you can see he knows her address in Washington….so he was clearly stalking her, but why?, does he miss her? does he need a date to see Sandra and her boyfriend?does he want to put a blonde in front of Sandra’s face? I really hope they explain this…Sandra’s smart but I don’t know why she took the S1!Sandra’s type boyfriend…maybe because he’s totally different than HRG..I don’t call it character assasination, but akward. About Lauren knowing about Claire’s regeneration, I think she didn’t know clearly, but it’s not the first time she sees that or maybe HRG told her during the cook. Anyway, I like her…and she’s being fooled by HRG, who we don’t know if he wants her to know again or just use…Time will tell.
I’ve started reviewing things for Kryptonsite.com (via the forums), so I’m going to say Otto is wrong.
How dare he lay such a well-constructed, concise and funny arguments against an episode that I happen to love because it had Lydia looking fine, Ray Park running around and Hiro getting down with his subtly sexual self?
Wait, what was I saying?
No. Otto’s right again. At least, up until the Nathan comments. We disagree there. I think the show is raising the issue of memory quite a bit. Is a person a soul, or a memory? A case could be made for the soul being predominant, but as we’ve seen on this show several of the characters aren’t whole without their memories. So I think Nathan is a large part of Sylar. Enough to overcome him? Probably not, but enough to fight him internally in a way no other character has really been able to do.
And I disagree with Otto about Doug. Doug’s awesome. He’s the real world infringing on this show, a dorky yet sweet guy who can’t take any of this weirdness. He’s a great guy for Sandra to wind up with, because she really deserved more than Noah manipulating the family through some loose sense of ‘protective nurturing’ that grew slimmer and slimmer as the years went on.
But mostly I love this episode because Milo is playing Peter fantastically this year. He needs to believe Nathan is alive, because he’s lost almost everything since the show has started. Charles, Simone, Caitlin, Adam, his Dad. Peter’s dangerously close to losing touch with humanity again, and he really has to believe that someone like Sylar can overcome his programming and become someone better. If Sylar takes full charge over Nathan, we are going to see the darkest Peter we’ve ever seen because Nathan is his rock. His link to this world.
I say give Milo an Emmy. The guy is playing an earnest character believably. That deserves as much props as a snarky Doctor and a manipulative jack-ass who very rarely is ever shown to play second place to any character.
Totally agree with you about Peter! Yes, he lost everything, he’s trying to get something…even if that’s a fake Nathan…and gets Sylar out of the pic.
And I agree about Doug…that’s why I saw him for Sandra…even if he’s not smart, he’s a normal guy trying to have a normal life, and that’s what Sandra needed.
Ian, 100% on the same wavelength bro. Milo is giving the best performance of the entire run with this season (”Acceptance” being the only misstep in his acting- he became Keanu Petrelli in that one). I can’t understand why everybody keeps hating on his acting during the last 2 eps (Brother’s Keeper & Thanksgiving). Everyone’s saying they can’t get a read on what Peter is feeling regarding the Sylathan Reveal, but that’s obviously the point. Peter is in total shock and is slowly coming out of it and going thru the 5 stages of grief. Brother’s Keeper started a trilogy for Peter and Nathan that is going to end in an emotional flash-flood in “The Fifth Stage.” I have high hopes for this ep and pray that it elegantly ends Nathan’s story arc(SPOILER ALERT- “the Fifth Stage” is Pasdar’s last ep) and puts Peter on a psychological precipice, teetering between bleeding heart and heart of stone- which would also tie him more closely to the carnival as he loses touch with humanity and desperately searches for someone who understands what it’s like to lose family. Enter Samuel who gets peter thru the pain AND gets him back in touch with his original power of Empathy. Too bad Samuel’s only using peter to lure in those he can’t persuade himself. That’s my prediction anyway. And even if it doesn’t happen, it still sounds cool
“Everyone’s saying they can’t get a read on what Peter is feeling regarding the Sylathan Reveal.”
I think I’ve been slightly guilty on that front, but it’s probably got more to do with impatience on my part (get to it already!) vs. the writers taking their sweet time letting Peter stew in the most recent revelations without really getting to say much. The result for me has been the parlor game of “What’s-Peter-Thinking?”, which I must admit I’ve quite enjoyed, even though it may come out as griping when posturing theories on that front.
Bottom line is: I wholeheartedly fourth Ian in really liking what Milo is doing with Peter this year. He’s been a joy to watch, and remains the main reason I tune in every week.
Put simply, Heroes appears to have abandoned all sense of hope.
But as you mention the show does comment on it, which only gives me ‘hope’ they are aware what has happen to the show and we can once again come across moments of hope in the future, or even a vol 5 end. That’s what we had in season one - hope. But again this lose of it, that fact that Peter does not make that speech ( not that it was really the time) but perhaps Sylar is showing us how much Peter has changed - his mother lost her hope and became who she did - I think many people need to get their hope back to finally slay the Sylar dragon.
Or not. It could be that Noah genuinely had no idea he was looking right at Lauren, and this was a chance meeting that just happened to make Noah’s plans for Thanksgiving possible.
Don’t know if he knew she WAS there, but they make an effort to say he’s shopping way out of his area of town - I think he was looking for excuse to run into her, but then this is HRG he knows how to stake out a person and he hasn’t dated for years.
Was Lyle’s absence a disappointment?
No, he’s a terrible actor and the show knows it. What I don’t get is, “he couldn’t get away from school” - so Sandra doesn’t live near by, ’cause last I thought Lyle is younger, and since Claire is starting college early that means Lyle is not in college. I was also under the impression Sandra had moved near Claire’s college - that being said if she isn’t she brought her boyfriend across the country to her husbands dinner. I just wish it had been explained more, but they are doing really good in the explaining department, so I let it pass.
don’t buy it at all. It’s great for laughs, but it comes at the expense of character. This is not the way Sandra was portrayed over the course of the previous four volumes.
May I totally agree with everything you said in the above paragraph and worries me for the Petrelli Nathan mourning period ahead, which could be so rich - still, I have… wait for it… hope. BUT, as for Sandra and Noah it is human to be lonely and it is human to pretend your going on with the rest of your life. Telling yourself, this is the perfect “anti” Noah guy, or “well, if she’s moved on, why shouldn’t I” I do hate the show for not going into the detail, but humanity, but I wouldn’t call character assassination. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sandra marries the dufus to show she’s show “Anti Noah” or maybe I just love the idea of the comic bits of Doug being the third man out as they hid stuff from him and whisper in corners - bringing Sandra and Noah closer, lol. If anything this is a way to break characters into new and different storylines - for them to grow in some way - and keep Ashely on the show. Still hoping for that Ashely/Sandra Cris/Angela scene - ohhh please story gods, just one…
Was that actually a conversation about yams? Or is it code for something much naughtier? You decide.
Oh, come on, totally bad flirty banter.
It’s like the two of them are half-hiding behind a wall — literally and figuratively, from each other and from the truth. Subtle, but the kind of thing director Seith Mann was probably aiming for when he shot the scene.
Yup! Has you run to your own site and look at titles for the end of the season, so not to spoil people.
Was that a threat? Because after all of the damage she’s done, would it be so bad if they never heard from her again? You want to laugh at the lack of weight her intended threat carries, but also at the way she’s clearly deluding herself into thinking they are still a family.
I think it’s very smart no Angela’s part and what she’s good at -manipulation. She holds the key to what they want - so herself it the get, she leaves and her secrets go with her.
and I can’t help thinking this is a detail that undermines his entire character arc. Until now, Samuel seemed like a character who pursued power as a means to strengthen his family. The impression we’re getting now is almost the opposite: that he’s exploiting his superpowered family to harness his power, and that he’s willing to sacrifice anyone — even his own family — in order to realize his goal.
It may have been done the best, but I can buy it and just see the front part as subterfuge for the audience. Sam was very upset when his brother died and I believe he did care for his brother and is upset for it, but it out weights his own lust for power, much like the company and saving the world vs insert bad thing here. I think if he didn’t seem upset when his brother died, it would have felt like a bate and switch. I was very happy when last week, or was it this week, lol, Lydai goes “If Hiro changed the past where is Joesph” - it was a key piece of info we we’re all thinking and shows the writers are totally on that page.
There are tears in Angela’s eyes as she recounts what happened, and as such it allows for Cristine Rose to deliver one of her most searing and brutally honest performances throughout the series.
Whoo hoooo! More scenes like this please.
As contemptible and selfish as Angela remains for putting this entire tragedy into motion, it’s hard to deny that her heart was in the right place and that she believed she was doing the right thing.
What I loved about this scene was Angela admitted she panicked. Rare for the character to admit she did something wrong - that she didn’t make the clear choice, not that she did a bad, bad thing for a greater good, that her emotions did get in the way, which I’m pretty sure has happened to some extent before, but here after the emotional season of dealing with Arthur, just moments before her emotional reunion with Alice, she was raw and vulnerable. Angela is pretty on the edge of going crazy. What is always compelling to me is seeing the weak characters in strong moments and the strong characters in weak moments, the chink in the armor and Angela’s chink is her family. She lost her family at 16 and seems to have spent the rest of her life trying to get that family back, marring Arthur so young and so short after her parents death, the family of Adam and the Company, her sons. Many times that one emotional moment can shape people’s objectives for the rest of their life, but I digress.
Peter, perhaps not surprisingly, finds it in himself to sympathize with his mother, which again is in character for a guy whose compassion always extended beyond everyone else’s, and for a guy who’s apparently unable to condemn his family for anything for too long.
Which is the far more interesting choice then “I hate you and never want to see you again”
Great dialogue, because it speaks to Angela’s preoccupation with appearances. It’s consistent with the woman who stayed with the husband she knew was a tyrant, and with the woman who now insists on her family celebrating Thanksgiving in spite of the atmosphere pervading the apartment.
This totally didn’t dawn on me, and I love it, I totally can see this, I feel this scene and Cris’s amazing moments have the most weight by looking at 1961 and what I’ve said above - this is a woman who lost her entire family at the impressionable age of 16 and keeping that family, no matter what, is foremost on her emotional mind. And all her life it’s come in contrast with saving the world - pretty said and puts her in many Sophie Choice situations.
It’s the only part of Angela’s dialogue that sounds less than persuasive, and you get the sense that she realizes that
Yeah, she’s fooling herself, and just like Peter at the end of the episode. In grief, one would do anything to get that loved one back - including things that make no sense. Sythan is like putting pictures all around, not throwing out their clothes, smelling their smell in pillows - to pretend they are with you, but they are not, as much as you want it to be true.
The first thing that occurs to Lauren to be thankful for is canned yams, which perhaps underlines how thin her characterization has been…
I don’t know - From Company to CIA, to eating with strangers, I’d keep my personal thanks close to the vest, I saw this she’s thankful for running into Noah.
It’s only her actions in response to her unhappiness that seem ungrateful, inconsiderate and bratty.
Well said!
Samuel exhibits something resembling regret over killing his brother, but given that he now goes to Mohinder’s motel and kills him too, it’s difficult to see Samuel as anything other than a depraved monster.
And I look forward to OUR heroes to all come together with their own collective force to beat him down.
You could argue that the one person it’ll make a difference to is Noah, whose pockets are now $40,000 lighter. But since that’s a tainted Company severance package,
Well, Angela was gonna pay for it last we heard.
Lauren and Claire:
Still could believe SHE was the only other one who knew about Claire and NOT Eden. But it’s a long shot. I agree with what you said to the other poster above, I think a regen is RARE! Why Claire was so coveted and why Angela went so far to hide the girl, among many reasons - including I believe giving Claire the normal life that Angela never had. As for Lauren and “never seen a regen before” she’s an awkward girl at best and I think this was her way to bonding with Sandra, or bringing up a conversation like “How about those (Insert local ball club here)” or “Look at that weather.” I wouldn’t be surprised if a regen was one of those they all at the Company read about in a text book, but rarely saw in the field, and with what her blood can do, you can see why and no pun intended “blood thirsty” the company could be for that and how much Angela (and even Arthur unless she’s lying or Angela made Arthur go along with it, as she says “My husband and I made arrangements) would need to hide the girl - the irony that after building up the company and then having to hide one of their own is fantastic and I wish, but fear we never will, would get a flash back to Angela and Nathan’s POV during that time when he met Meredith to the moment Angela and Kaito sent her away. Interesting fact, not that Heroes mag is written exclusively by the writers of the show, but the timeline suggests Kaito and Angela we’re in co-hoots to send Claire away - and who else with in the company would you ask, but a former loved. :)(or current?)
If Noah is treating Claire like a child, IT’S BECAUSE SHE’S ACTING LIKE A CHILD!
I cheered when he told her that. I do think they want us to believe and I do a little, that Claire just doesn’t feel her dad is one to say who is bad and who isn’t - and Sam is really good at playing the martyr (”You can convince an apple it’s an orange”) I think she’s lost and feeling very adopted at the moment. What she needs to to connect with the Petrellis, but after she finds out about Nathan’s dead, unsure if she will want to.
Which is why it’s hard to gauge why Lydia is so upset.
I think they all do feel like family to each other, remember when the old time traveler died, it’s like finding out a family member has lied and gone against everything you believe in, he killed Joseph, which devastated the family, that’s a big one.
Cristine again delivers a raw, affecting performance as the mother looking into the eyes of the man who killed her son. You can imagine how, if only on a subconscious level, a part of Angela’s hatred for Sylar also stems from the guilt that’s haunted her since the day she tried to eradicate him.
SOooo on her game. But here brings me to what in theory makes this story line so great for her. Angela brought this on herself and this is her just deserts, just as much as what Noah did and what the aftermath did to Claire. Angela put her hand in the monsters cage and rattled it and just like the irony of the bomb plans and the idea that the whole would die for the many to life… opps, btw the bomb is your son. But really this one is the most interesting of all. She made Sylar think he was her son and so in return karma has HIM take away her real only first born son.
If killing my second favorite character (Twice) wasn’t enough, but kissing Angela - I have to say it was grossly perfect - and said so much. But I know have the burning fire of a thousand Petrellis to bring that man down. lol
… and to stare at Angela with the look of disdain she so wholeheartedly deserves.
YUP! And in a sense to save her son she is torturing him, well his “clone” cause I agree, it’s not him. He may think he’s him, but it’s not him. Its like waking up one day to find out you are really the clone of yourself and the real you is dead - I believe when he’s Nathan he truly believes he is, but he IS NO NATHAN.
it’s not so much about speculating about where it’ll lead as it is positing theories about what it involved in the first place.
Yes, I agree so I will reserve judgment until we see it, which I’m gonna guess won’t be until after the break, or MAYBE the cliffhanger for next time. But all I could think was “NO, We’ve been here!”
GREAT review! Look forward to your responses
“Put simply, Heroes appears to have abandoned all sense of hope.”
I wouldn’t say there’s no hope, but I definitevely have problems with the morality on the show.
The way Sylar keeps coming back, killing several dozens of people on his way, is indeed the perfect illustration. Hiro stabs him : The Company heals him. Elle stops him : Angela releases him to use him as a killer droid. Peter stops him : Angela *puts* Nathan in him. Can’t say Angela doesn’t have a share of responsability in that.
If that wasn’t enough, they even wrote a “Obviously doomed redemptive arc for him”, under marster manipulator Angela’s supervision. I don’t think the 2 people that really gave him a chance to change would make the same choice again if they had the chance to : Elle is dead, Peter lost his brother (and his father but he doesn’t seem to care about that) (and for some reason Meredith had to die in the process).
If I wanted to make a joke about it, Sylar is a bit like those cartoon villains that get their asses kicked but keep coming back every few episodes.
Basicly : Good people get screwed, evil/dark-grey people get away with anything.
Peter’s situation would probably be the worst. He’s probably the most well-intentioned character on the show, and for some reason, he keeps getting screwed because he trusts or tries to help people. I like to think that at some point he will finally be fed up with it and definitively cut all links with Angela. A bit like Future Peter or Claude that kind of gave up on the human good-willed nature.
Claire’s situation should be close when she learn Sylar is still around, since she lost both her biological parents, but at least HRG is trying (or wants to try) to help people to make up for what he’s done for the company.
Angela ? Well, we don’t know what she’s been up to, but it seems sending the Haitian around is her solution to lots of things. Maybe if Peter gets away from her, she’ll decide to make things right (New Company maybe?).
I would love a 5YG-IABD Future if we get a 5th season even though it’s darker than what we’ve had so far, few episodes aside. I agree that there has to be hope on a show like Heroes, but so far, I don’t think it’s gone, at least not yet. I have a problem as big - if not bigger - with the way the writers deal with morality, where Peter gets screwed every time he does an good thing while others get away with mass-murdering, creating serial killers and voluntarely releasing them in nature.
I find that the show tends to side with intelligence (Sylar) rather than simple-thinking (Peter, S2 in particular). Evil vs. good is almost besides the point when you have Peter (for all intends and purposes) killing his own father. Peter’s the one that’s been used by others over and over again, and that’s why I think things go badly for him.
This season’s Peter on the other hand seems to have grown a bit of a brain, and he’s trying to be his own person. This gives me hope that he won’t be quite as easily trodden upon, especially with Emma sitting in his corner, ready to return the favor of saving a life (or re-assembling a mind broken with grief).
My point wasn’t really the whole good vs evil debate.
To put it simply : Close to none of the characters’ actions, goor or bad, really have consequencces.
Sylar killed dozens of people. They had the occasion to stop him several times, and they didn’t.
Peter on the other hand, saves people but doesn’t ask anything in exchange, which prooves how sefless he is. In response, he gets manipulated by his mother, isn’t even aware of his brother’s death and his mother tries to weep his memory when he’s about to learn the truth, that he deserves to know after all.
That, and with Angela being responsible (directly or not) for a gigantic body count, there should be a point where he’ll get tired of this, and at least be mad at Angela for more than 5 minutes…
Most of things aren’t good or bad, just divergence of opinions, but things that are undeniabely evil should be punished, at least from times to times. If not, there will hardly ever be a lesson to learn from Heroes if they keep it that way.
^ ^ This is exactly the point I was trying to make, especially in relation to Peter and Sylar: good deeds aren’t rewarded — except with manipulation, deception and exploitation — while evil deeds are rewarded with survival, acquisition of power and cheers from us for the way the villains are so ~*brilliantly devious*~ and ~*morbidly funny*~.
I appreciate your point, Pas, that you aren’t trying to debate the good/evil divide so much as the lack of ramifications. But I think you’re (perhaps unintentionally) arguing the same point: that sometimes, there’s something to be said for the classic, clearcut hero/villain victory/defeat format.
The product placement is crossing the line now. Possibly important plot info on a web site? It’s even more import than how the daughter clip and the ads factor into the DVDs … how the show will be remembered forever? Will they have to include commercials into a DVD to really appreciate it and know what happens to the mother?
Otto, I’m surprised that you weren’t amazed or upset like I was.
I’m opposed to actually going to the Sprint site and encouraging more of this kind of thing in my entertainment. I actually click links of sites like this and check out sponsors because I know how the system works, but I can’t encourage this at all. I buy the DVDs, I don’t need the artistic package comprised even if it allows a good flow of Heroes to continue.
As excited as I am for a good season of Heroes, I have no problem with letting it die to never let this kind of thing get any worse.
Right before the writer’s strike, I felt like TV was hitting a new golden age with quality like Lost, BSG, and Heroes finding movie-level quality (that’s just sci-fi). Now I hope it all goes to iTunes/DVD/paid streaming. I will take lower budget effects for uncompromised storytelling.
Clarification…
What I disliked about this one Sprint teaser was that the Lydia character will probably die now and they say “see what happens next” on our site.
I know they have to do whatever it takes to keep it going. I do respect that they just baited it well, they just did it way too much.
From when Hiro rented the car to drive to Vegas, to the latest step, which is a big leap. Before, they just annoyed me and reminded me how fake the show is, but the character may not be there next episode. If that’s the case I will be really upset because it will be a large part much larger slide for the industry. The DVDs really wouldn’t be complete without a commercial.
Matt, all valid points, and I can’t say I disgree with them. For whatever reason, I don’t see the Sprint webisodes as anywhere near as bad as the Versa and Rogue and Guitar Hero placements. I agree that the webisodes should be on the DVD as an accessory to the show, but I think it’s kind of cool that the “Wow, look at my awesome cell phone!” moment is separate to the episode’s 42 minutes instead of eating into them.
I’d say there are elements of the webisodes that are compelling and worth watching (hence, we’re almost obligated to endure the product placement in the webisode), but at the same time I wonder whether those elements have tied back to the main story as directly as they should have. You look at stuff like Lydia’s loathing towards Samuel, Edgar’s devotion to Lydia, Amanda feeling like an outcast (very much the way Claire does), the way the carnival has been portrayed as a haven for people with abilities — all of that is stuff that’s been covered in the webisodes (and, to the same extent, the GNs), and yet it’s barely translated to the carnival storyline on the show at all.
So, it doesn’t bother me that the product placement was taken out of the show, but it does bother me that the webisodes and GNs are a great way to expand on ideas from the show, and that the ideas they’re generating aren’t tying back to the show as directly as they could (or should).
JLYK, thank you, and respect to you if you liked the episode enough to score it higher than I did.
CJM, thank you. I’m going to address the bulk of the Sylathan discussion in relation to the points you made in your post, but they’re equally in response to the points in a lot of other posts this week, especially from renaldsrap and LeeAnna.
“Maybe i just never wanted to look to close, but whenever i saw Sylathan in trouble, i always felt it was happeneing to Nathan. Not some fascimile likeness of Nathan, not Sylar or Sylathan, but our Nathan.”
I keep going back and forth on whether this was the intention. TPTBs seem to have been content to let it be, because it’s what makes these final few episodes so poignant. But the way Sylathan’s had dialogue along the lines of, “I’m dead, I’m not me, I’m an illusion under a murderer’s skin,” etc., I wonder if the character’s self-awareness was supposed to reinforce the idea that he’s an imitation.
“He was a good guy who was trying to do the right things with his life.”
This I agree with, although I think it’s to Sylathan’s credit that he’s distinguished himself as a hero in his own right. I’d attribute his nobility this season to him, as opposed to Nathan.
“For me, the Sylathan storyline hasn’t been the epitomy of failed storylines. It was a good, heartfelt story that made you think.”
Again, not disagreeing here. I still have very mixed feelings about the way the concept was introduced in the finale, and I feel TPTBs kept Peter and Claire in the dark a lot longer than they should have. But I’m not disagreeing that there’s been some great material for AP and ZQ to work with this season on the back of the Sylathan storyline. It’s when they try to blur the line between Nathan and Sylathan that I feel like they’re trying to cheat us. They had their shot to let the whole set of characters express real grief about Nathan’s death, and I fear that as momentous and profound as 4.12 turns out to be, it’ll still be too little, too late. I do hope I’m wrong about that.
“Maybe, when the show has run its course, what will wind up happening is that the original future will come to pass. That would blend in well with the ‘no hope’ motto.”
That would be cool. And sorta sad.
Renaldsrap, thank you.
“Outstanding episode that is only marred by the lack of characterization within the carnival…”
I’m beginning to wonder if that’s a systemic thing that’ll run throughout the season. It seems like the carnival’s being portrayed as a giant entity and a character in itself, but that it’s essentially represented by Samuel, Edgar and Lydia. And Becky, sort of. Bizarrely, though, I’d say Becky’s been the most consistently written member of the carnival, at least insofar as she has a clear agenda, an endgame and a defined personality. And TPTBs accomplished that with a fraction of the screen time they’ve given Samuel.
Rosie, yes, Hiro did indeed avert his eyes and remain loyal to Charlie. If he hadn’t, there would have been a looooong rant this week about how the episode ruined 4.08.
The Sylar/Angela kiss was very Shakespearean, I agree. I think the intent was to emphasize how Sylar has become so twisted that concepts of family ties no longer mean anything to him, and to demonstrate how innovatively (and horribly) he can taunt the people who once controlled him. And he probably wanted to p**s Peter off.
Susan, thank you. I hope you’re right about 4.12 being the episode that shows Peter coming to terms with Nathan’s death. Based on the previews, it looks like he will.
LeeAnna,
“[Sylathan's] reactions to his death and how he keeps telling everyone how “he” is dead keeps making me believe that its not just memories because it seems too self aware. Whether thats just the writers or not it comes across as actually being Nathan and that lends strength to the story line.”
But, see, that strikes me as exactly how they’re trying to cover their butts and avoid looking like idiots — by implying that they know they’re only stringing along Peter (and us) when they try to fool us into thinking that Sylathan and Nathan are interchangeable. They’re basically saying, “We know he’s not really Nathan, and here’s some dialogue to prove it — but hey, you have to admit: we got you, didn’t we?” It’s elaborate storytelling, but in the end it’s elaborate storytelling that revolves around an imitation, and self-aware or not, that’s exactly what bothers me about this storyline: that we’re essentially being asked to accept that a synthesized personality is close enough to the real thing to earn our emotional investment. We’re being swept up in the dilemma — “Will Nathan overcome Sylar?” — and I can’t help thinking it’s as false a dilemma as the personality that’s involved. Sylathan’s appearance and memories do not make him Nathan. People can rant at me for thinking that, but I’m sorry to say that so far, nothing has convinced me otherwise — not even a consistently excellent performance from Pasdar all season.
Re: Sylar’s crappy life eroding his confidence in hope and the human spirit: yes, and nicely articulated. I’d still say it’s a bleak message to put across. Surely there’s an equally valid message to be made about people with rough lives overcoming adversity and making a positive difference in the world. I very much hope this won’t be misinterpreted by anyone (particularly anyone with any kind of mental or physical impairment), but I see Emma as a great example of an individual who found it in themselves to move beyond adversity and personal tragedy, and who had a positive impact on the people around them. Even with a fairly limited power — and even when she’s surrounded by people with spectacular powers — she managed to make a difference. That, to me, represents one of the few very hopeful messages the show has delivered this season.
“I believe that [Sylar] has always had an awareness about the situations and characters in the show above what the other characters didn’t…”
Yes. And in a way, I think Sylar is like an outlet for TPTBs to say what the other characters can’t. He’s like a conduit for the writers’ cynicism and self-parody.
Raissa, thank you. Re: Jean vs Gene: I thought the same thing, but then Doug pronounced penchant as pon-chaunt, so I would have figured he’d pronounce Jean as Jaaauuun instead of Geeeeen. You’re probably right, though.
If the budget came down to Miss Lovegood or Lyle… would that be a tough call for anyone?
Hrefna,
“It would be nice if the show switched up the format formula a bit more, to avoid it starting to feel stale.”
I have to say I didn’t even notice this until now, but you’re right, it does appear to have become the default approach this season. I find it interesting that you feel the solution would be even more streamlined episodes. I’m tempted to suggest the show try both approaches — multiple-character episodes as well as single-character episodes. The risk there is that the tone of the show would change quite dramatically from week to week. One episode would involve a dozen characters and storylines, the next week only one, and the following week three or four. It would avoid the formulaic rhythm that you mention, but I wonder if the expense would be a consistent, coherent tone to the whole thing.
“I also don’t have a problem with her having a boyfriend so soon. Some people don’t deal well alone, particularly after living with somebody else for eons.”
Would you say, then, that her relationship with Doug is a response to being alone? Or is it an expression of a healthy break-up and a sign that Sandra felt ready to move on?
“I’d imagine Edgar would have been quickly executed by his fellow carnivalers if he’d gone after Samuel.”
I’m not so sure. One of the points I’d planned to make in this week’s review is that the rest of the carnival members come across as fairly docile; they’re like sheep, in the sense that they’ll believe whatever they’re told, even something like “Edgar killed Joseph,” when it should have been apparent to all of them that the reason Edgar constantly undermined Samuel is because he was fiercely loyal to Joseph.
“Regarding Hiro jumping in time/space to fix the Charlie-debacle, I guess he either doesn’t trust himself with his ability, or he’s just that un-imaginative/stupid.”
Definitely the second of those! (And, of course, it would ruin the drama…
)
B., thank you, and I’m glad we’re once again of one mind.
“I was hoping that Lauren & Doug would hook up for some random reason and run off together, ridding us of their characters forever, and pushing Noah and Sandra back together.”
Could someone write a fanfic based on that? Please?
Re: the reality of the Sylathan situation:
“This makes Peter’s fight even more pathetic (and I don’t say that to be cruel) because he’s so unaware of what is really going on.”
Yes, although I’m not sure I agree that he’s “unaware.” I agree with a point that Michael has made in several discussion threads — that Peter realizes he’s clinging onto the last piece of his brother that he can find.
Well done for defending Olivieri. I didn’t think she sold the character’s reaction this week all that believably, but if you did, the actress obviously played the role convincingly enough.
Re: Gretchen:
” I’m curious to see where her relationship with Claire will go…”
I’m curious to see where her visit to the carnival will go. Especially in light of the warnings from Claire about Becky and from HRG (to Claire) about the carnival’s ethically challenged leader.
Einmaliger, welcome! Sorry to hear this was a low point since Volume Three for you. I didn’t think it was that bad, but I know what you mean when it comes to the “nothing really happens” rut. I felt the show broke out of it at the start of Volume Four and never fell into it again; even this week, we saw Edgar being driven out of the carnival and Angela breaking down after months of deceit — and those strike me as pretty big turning points for the characters. YMMV, though.
Looking back, there are portions of this season so far that I’m beginning to question: would anyone agree that the Amnesiac-Sylar storyline, well written and well acted as it was, didn’t contribute a great deal? And that the slaughterhouse drama achieved relatively little? And that Sylathan’s trip down memory lane in 4.04 didn’t advance anyone’s storyline in any substantial way? I guess each of those things contributed in their own way to the stage the story has reached now, but they took up a lot of screen time, and I wonder how much they achieved in that time.
Pas, thank you, and great post. Interesting point about Gretchen. Does her return signify Claire returning to college, or Gretchen’s storyline going somewhere that doesn’t involve college at all? I think it could be either.
Great point about the way the consciousness-transferring ability could have played a part in the Sylathan storyline. Do you think we’ll still find out where (and who) that ability came from? It’s a similar solution to the Sylathan situation to the one that Matt came up with: Matt working a whammy that would lift and transfer Nathan’s soul from his body wholesale. If HRG knows so much about people’s abilities, couldn’t he simply tell Matt that by grabbing Sylar and Dead-Nathan and applying a whammy to both of them, he can transfer a mind from one body to another? Just a thought. It would have robbed us of the “What is a soul?” debate, but it might have made more sense.
“He just assumed if he knew about his ability he would be evil/killing people and eventually, he sold him out to the government.”
I saw a parallel to several other storylines here: Nathan wanting Peter locked away in Volume 4 because he was sure Peter would become a threat to the world someday, even if he didn’t intend to. And, potentially, Angela, who must have had her reasons (besides Arthur’s wishes) for not telling Peter about his ability.
Re: Samuel: “He was somehow pre-destined to be a villain because of how he was raised, a bit like Sylar back then.”
I’m not sure I’d agree that it’s down to the way he was raised; I’d say one of the points that Sylar’s backstory has made is that it’s not always about upbringing — it’s about who you are, and whether you’re inherently good or rotten at the core from the moment you’re born. With Sylar AND Samuel, I’d say the argument is that they were born with a destructive capacity, and that it was only a matter of time before that propensity for destruction broke out and informed who they became.
Matt,
“I don’t really get your joy over them (since the whole family is obnoxious), but whatever.”
It’s a love/hate relationship.
Myrystyr, solid theory on Damien’s motives. I’d say it’s a case of Damien adding whatever flashes Hiro needs in order to subvert Samuel, because apparently everyone has their reasons to hate Samuel.
Jason, couple of thoughts:
“What is going to stop him from going back to his old plan of trying to become the President?”
I think the president’s inner circle will be ready to react to this after the last attempt on his life by a psychotic shapeshifter (although I guess there’s not a whole lot they can do to stop someone like Sylar). But I wonder if the more relevant question is whether Sylar would still be interested in becoming president. It’s probably still the ultimate power trip for Sylar, but once the current agenda (revenge, revenge, revenge) is over, I’m sure there’ll be something else to distract him.
Great point about all of the storylines converging on the carnival. I hope Peter’s subdermal compass tattoo will be mentioned at some point, because in theory that should be what guides him to the carnival.
Michael, a small thought about Claire: could it be denial that leads her to ignore HRG’s advice? It could that she’s so determined to find a place where she fits in that she’s willing to ignore all facts that point to the carnival being a dangerous place. Perhaps it’s not so much that she’s dumb as it is that she’s stubborn.
Elle, great point about Volume One ending on a positive note. I think Volume Three ended on a similar note, at least insofar as Pinehearst and the formula were destroyed and the central villain was killed (one of them, anyway). It’s hard to say how Volume Five can end with a positive note; I guess with Samuel being defeated and someone taking the reigns on the carnival and running it more humanely (as in, without ordering members to kill outsiders)?
Re: Angela being the master-manipulator: I saw her role this week as very much the repentant villainess. I’m not sure her tearful admission amounts to redemption, but it struck me as a step in the right direction — one that leads away from the “master-manipulator” title.
I liked this, re: HRG telling Lauren about Claire’s ability:
“… maybe HRG told her during the cook.”
“Here’s more cayenne, Lauren. Pass me the salt. Is this too much flour or too little milk? Oh, by the way, did you know my daughter’s invincible? AM I STIRRING VIGOROUSLY ENOUGH?”
Ian, thank you, and congratulations once again on the review gig on the K-Site boards.
“Peter’s dangerously close to losing touch with humanity again…”
I’m curious about the “again,” here. I would have said he was close to losing his humanity after the end of Volume Four, hence the workaholic streak and the disconnect from his family and friends. I wonder how this current situation would (/will) compare to that bout of self-imposed isolation.
PandoraRose, thank you as always for taking the time to produce a counter-review.
I found your point about Season One’s sense of optimism quite thought-provoking. I wonder whether, looking back, there are signs that even that had a hint of hopelessness to it. We didn’t know it at the time, but when you consider how everything developed in Season Two (Niki’s medication and ensuing depression, D.L.’s death, Sylar’s survival, Nathan’s alcoholism, Hiro accidentally creating a lunatic in the past, Peter voluntarily confining himself in a cell…), I wonder whether we can even look at the end of Volume One as an example of a hopeful message. The New York explosion was averted, so I guess that’s something, but even then, the repercussions seem to undermine the vindication.
“… as for Sandra and Noah it is human to be lonely and it is human to pretend your going on with the rest of your life.”
This is another point I’d planned to bring up in the review: that Claire and Sandra pretty much chide HRG for bringing a date, but that everyone’s OK with Sandra bringing Doug (besides some humorous grumbling). I wonder what that says about the social conventions to moving on from a long marriage; whether Sandra’s entitled to meet someone new because she’s stuck with Lyle and not getting a whole lot of screen time, and whether HRG’s condemned to a minimum amount of time alone before he’s ~*allowed*~ to hook up with anyone new. I guess the general feeling is that he’s directly responsible for the marriage ending in the first place, but I find it interesting that pretty much all of us (characters AND audience) agree that he isn’t entitled to the same chance for personal happiness that Sandra is.
Re: the $40,000: could it be that HRG and Angela split the cost of tuition, and that the actual cost was $80,000? I don’t think Arlington is portrayed as that good a college on the show, but if this is true, how much more ungrateful and irresponsible does Claire seem now?
Re: Claire finding out about Nathan’s death: this is something I think we’ve all ignored. We’ve debated Peter’s reaction (or non-reaction) back and forth, but none of us have really considered whether Claire’s reaction is now just as overdue.
If the budget came down to Miss Lovegood or Lyle… would that be a tough call for anyone?
Nope.
Hey Otto, thanks for uber-replying!
I’m as torn as you are about departing from the three-stories per episode format. To the show’s credit they seem to have really tried to have the stories echo similar themes this season, even though the the stories themselves aren’t connected so much. After having complained bitterly about the series being all over the place in previous years, I think maybe we should just be happy with consistency?
“Would you say, then, that her relationship with Doug is a response to being alone? Or is it an expression of a healthy break-up and a sign that Sandra felt ready to move on?”
The former. Nothing about that break-up was healthy. But that doesn’t invalidate the relationship with Doug. Divorcing is a multi-step process, and there’s no “proper” way to go about resuming your life afterwards. Your point above though about how everybody was shocked that Noah had date, and how that reflects societal standards is interesting. I thought the “shocked” part was just that he hadn’t told anybody, whereas Doug had already been with Sandra for a while.
Re: Carnivalers are sheep. Yeah, you’re probably right. But then again, would Becky and Edgar then be the only killers besides Samuel? Does that make sense? And the rest just like to dress up in funky clothes?
“…none of us have really considered whether Claire’s reaction is now just as overdue.”
I never saw Claire really connecting with Nathan emotionally. Did they even spend any real time together besides getting drunk in Mexico? Sure he’s her biological dad, but he might as well be a distant uncle on an emotional level. Not really expecting his death to have any earth-shattering repercussions on her and her character trajectory. That said… is there really _anybody_ except Peter and Angela (and the invisible ex-wife and two sons) that have a real reason to seriously mourn Nathan?
On a totally unrelated note: Surely Millie must have heard that Nathan showed up in his office for a day after supposedly having him killed. No?
“I very much hope this won’t be misinterpreted by anyone (particularly anyone with any kind of mental or physical impairment), but I see Emma as a great example of an individual who found it in themselves to move beyond adversity and personal tragedy, and who had a positive impact on the people around them. Even with a fairly limited power — and even when she’s surrounded by people with spectacular powers — she managed to make a difference. That, to me, represents one of the few very hopeful messages the show has delivered this season.”
I knew that people would make that argument, but I meant what I said about Sylar to be character specific. The dude just doesn’t handle anything well. He hasn’t managed to let anything go, which is probably the reason why we keep seeing him around the same people. He is a perfectly capable human-being who could do anything he wants or be anything he wants, but he is allowing other people’s actions to dictate his decisions. It is probably his greatest weakness. If he had learned to separate himself from his family’s actions like Peter did then we wouldn’t have Sylar. He would have never been a watchmaker, he would have never tried to grab so much power. His inability to forget or to push away is one of the fundamental differences between Peter and Sylar. Sure Peter is still attached to his psychotic family, but he can divide himself away from what they have done to him. Peter makes decisions, not always the right ones, but he knows what he wants from himself. If he was like Sylar he would probably be just like Nathan, everything his father wanted him to be. The difference with Sylar now, as opposed to S1, is that now he seems to be aware of this weakness which is why he acts the way he does. I’m not saying he hates himself, but he hates the world and everyone in it. He probably feels that no one ever gave him a chance and they have to pay for that. Its almost as if every reason he could have had for being a “hero” was taken away the moment his father killed his mother. It just went down hill from there.
As for Emma, I love her to death and love her story. She is one of the strongest characters (not just female characters) that has been on the show ever. (I want more screen time!) The thing with Emma though is that her mother forgave her for her indiscretions , something Sylar didn’t get, and kept supporting her even when she had sealed herself up among the filing cabinets. What is sad about when I saw her like that is I instantly thought of lonely Gabriel Gray (I’m not saying that she was going to start butchering people) but that loneliness where you’ve separated yourself off from everyone because of one reason of another. For her it was guilt, for him it was because he felt disconnected from everyone. Emma had support though, she had her mom, she had Peter. Emma was lucky in that even though she was deaf and felt guilty for the death of her nephew, which she blamed on her disability, she had those that cared. I have yet to see Sylar find someone who honestly cares enough not to keep secrets or lie to him (which means you can not count Elle). It is almost like Emma’s situation was unintentionally (or intentionally) developed to be a parallel to Sylar’s adverse situations.
To be honest I think you could get great TV out of giving those two characters screen time together. Neither of them take any crap and their intelligent. (It would be a sarcasm war.)
Note: I am very good at breaking down characters and what makes them run. Its a hobby of mine. Because of that I am rather good at finding things underdeveloped, or lost and forgotten. Sylar’s obvious love for books seems to be forgotten about or he would make far more literary references than just occasionally. (Something that has slightly bothered me.) His love for food and drink on the other hand we are reminded of every other time he torments someone. Is it me, or does he never seem to stop eating?
I could hardly discuss with you that Sylar and Samuel were rotten at the core. It’s not down to the way he was raised, but it played a huge part in making him drunk Samuel wanting more power, just as crazy mom raised Gabriel thinking he was special and Chandra just had to pop up for him to become a psycho. Ultimately, they had opposite trajectories, but the result is the same.
For the Sandra/Doug, I don’t have that much a problem, considering that she hardly made a couple with Noah. Considering he’s been consistently lying to her for several years (even though he did love her), that was only a matter of time untill she left him. They took time to divorce but they haven’t been together for a while now (If you know what I mean).
I don’t think I’m alone, but I pretty much differenciate every Nathan/Sylar we’ve had this season. Nathan is dead, there is Nathan in Sylar body (or Sylar’s body thinking he’s Nathan), Evil Sylar, Amnesiac Sylar. The biggest mystery there would be Amnesiac Sylar being not evil, just moppy, etc…
Crappy computer auto-posting >. Revenge, revenge, revenge -> ??? I don’t see how they can craft a compelling arc for a character that most people admit he’s been overused…
Ok it’s not my day. 3/4 of my post was deleted when I posted the comment.
I’ll give the idea in a nutshell.
Would Sylar having people supporting be enough to change him? I wonder how many people still lied to him in the IABD future. Future Peter calls him Sylar when talking to Peter so maybe he knew and kept the secret, HRG didn’t tell him in that future? I don’t know if Elle knew but considering she couldn’t even access her own file to know what the Company did to her, I guess it’s a safe bet to say she didn’t.
Even if he redempted himself (thing that is clearly impossible now), it would be undermined by tons of people probably lying to him, ending back in the circle of manipulation. It is kinda sad when you look back at it, although it’s obviously better to have someone cooking waffles than a serial killer.
Kill, kill, kill -> Revenge, revenge, revenge -> ??? I don’t see how they can craft a compelling arc for a character that most people admit he’s been overused…
re: the date, everyone knew about Doug. Maybe their frustration with HRG was that he brought someone unexpected. Like he was upsetting the balance. And as Claire can attest, he wasn’t dating her for that long. So it was messing with the dynamic to throw off Sandra.
Pas,
“… there is Nathan in Sylar body (or Sylar’s body thinking he’s Nathan)…”
I think this is where the ambiguity and confusion arise, because there’s a big difference between those two.
“I’m beginning to wonder if that’s a systemic thing that’ll run throughout the season. It seems like the carnival’s being portrayed as a giant entity and a character in itself, but that it’s essentially represented by Samuel, Edgar and Lydia.”
Otto, I’m starting to think you might be right. The only problem so far with this, is that it has killed a lot of excitement and suspense in certain stories and eps. First, it was “Tabula Rasa”- an ep that you gave a 4.5 (4 for me, personally), but which could have easily gotten a perfect 5 (from both of us, probably) if the show had used Sylathan to really explore the carnival and given us a reason to care about people like Damien and Arnold. Maybe done a better job of showing how the carnival works together as one cohesive unit. Then we have “Thanksgiving”, where Samuel framing Edgar for Joseph’s death had almost no emotional impact, because we’re lead to believe that no one there has their own opinions and just follow Samuel blindly. You mean to tell me there aren’t people at the carnival who suspected Samuel of killing Joseph in the first place? You know, i might have even actually been able to buy that IF they had shown us the expressions on the Carnies’ faces. Instead, we’re left with the impression that the Carnies are all mindless sheep who hear a bunch of quick words from Samuel about Edgar killing Joseph, calling Edgar a traitor, and then… “good riddance to the man whom I just told you killed my brother.” WHAT?! I thought Joseph was beloved by the entire carnival. shouldn’t they be screaming for Edgar’s blood instead of going back to eating pumpkin pie? Someone please tell me if I missed something here.
Also, regarding Samuel’s “transformation” into the Carnival’s enigmatic leader: it really isn’t such a stretch when you go back and watch the season so far. After doing this several times (Lost Syndrome) what i’ve pieced together is that Samuel, being Joseph’s brother was the Carnival’s natural choice for the new leader (it is the Sullivan Bros. Carnival after all). Samuel used his silver tongue to sway the Carnival’s inhabitants into helping him expand his “family”. To them (and us) he seemed confident and capable. But there are tell-tale signs that, through it all, Samuel has been completely winging almost everything: “Spinning plates”, as HRG would say, with only a vague notion that surrounding himself with supers will somehow make him more powerful. “Ink” is perfect evidence of this. He goes out into town to try and manipulate Peter into helping him gather the Supers, but it completely backfires, and Peter’s inherent nobility forces up Samuel’s guilt and grief over killing Joseph. I also firmly believe that he does want to help the Supers live free of the Non-Supers. even though it definitely wasn’t the best ep of the season, the ending to “Strange Attractors” seems to have cemented the fact that Samuel has always hated the Non-Supers for their judgement and treatment of what they don’t understand. I hope I’m right about that, cuz if it turns out that Samuel doesn’t care about the Super community, it’ll totally undermine one of the best scenes this season. the hatred on Samuel’s face when he brought down that precinct had to be real. There was no one around to fake it for. To sum it all up, the impression I got was that samuel used his skills in manipulation to sway the carnival into following him with no plan other than to gather supers, find out what was on the film from coyote sands, and eventually overthrow the Non-Super community. Again if i missed anything, feel free to let me know, but after re-watching the season so far, I can easily buy Samuel’s “transformation” simply because there was no transformation. He’s just putting on one hell of a performance.
Renaldsrap,
“I thought Joseph was beloved by the entire carnival. shouldn’t they be screaming for Edgar’s blood instead of going back to eating pumpkin pie? Someone please tell me if I missed something here.”
No, you didn’t miss anything. I rewatched the scene just now to be sure, and there’s sort of a *mutter-whisper-mutter* thing going on at the table when Edgar identifies Samuel as the killer, but besides that not much of a reaction.
I wonder if this ties in with Matt’s point upthread about the connection between the show and the additional media. I mean, the GNs and the webisodes give a much better idea of the carnival folks having their own thoughts on Samuel, Joseph and the influx of new supers. That hasn’t translated to the on-screen story, which is why we’re left wondering why there’s apparently no reaction whatsoever to the reveal that Edgar killed their former leader.
I’m not sure what the solution would be, though. Would it be realistic to expect a dozen carnival members to be fleshed out as characters? If TPTBs had written more scenes for Damien and Arnold and a few others and shown their reaction to this news, would that have made this moment more effective? Or at least more believable? It would have established why Edgar felt he’d been driven out of the carnival by Samuel’s manipulation, but it would have also established that not everyone was convinced that Edgar killed Joseph, and in turn that they’re not all blindly obedient sheep who’ll believe whatever they’re told.
Me and a mate were discussing Heroes on Twitter last night.
Namely that Heroes learned from Smallville’s mistakes, and then Smallville learned from Heroes success. Maybe it’s time for Heroes to learn from Smallville’s success. In Smallville, we’re seeing characters be heroic and embrace their secret identities - perhaps the way for Heroes to go is to move away from the ‘normal life’ crutch they have. To show these characters being awesomely heroic.
We have Sylar as a super villain, but no superheroes to really oppose him. I’m hoping Peter’s loss spurs him in that direction.
Agreed.
Heroes seems to tell only the origin part of their character’s story/journey… these are not “ordinary people with extraordinary abilities”, they are extraordinary people who ought to have moved beyond their ordinary origins by now.
We got to see Monica discover her powers, for example, but did not see her use them for the good of her society.
The message of the show seems to be that there are no heroes in real life; only villains and their ordinary victims.
Hrefna,
“I thought the “shocked” part was just that he hadn’t told anybody, whereas Doug had already been with Sandra for a while.”
But nobody (the characters or us) seems to be shocked that Sandra has hooked up with Doug. Besides that initial moment when HRG called her in 4.02, everyone has pretty much accepted it. I’m not sure whether that’s because Doug’s a nerd or because Sandra’s such a peripheral character at this point that it almost makes no difference, but I can’t see HRG ever getting past the stage where he has to qualify Lauren’s presence with, “No, she’s not a date — she’s Lauren!“, and that’s what I find curious: that we apply a different standard to Sandra because she’s considered the “wronged” party, and that we’re more inclined to judge HRG, in spite of the screen time devoted to his lonely nights eating cereal. Shouldn’t we be happier for HRG than we are for Sandra, given how unhappy we know he’s been? That was the part I found interesting.
“… would Becky and Edgar then be the only killers besides Samuel? Does that make sense? And the rest just like to dress up in funky clothes?”
I’d say Damien probably has plenty of skeletons in his closet — I’d love to see his backstory developed. It sounds like Spider-Caleb will end up getting more attention, which is also cool. But the fire-breathing family and the dude who could make teddy bears disappear? I can’t picture those carnival members being assigned to kill off bank clerks.
“I never saw Claire really connecting with Nathan emotionally. Did they even spend any real time together besides getting drunk in Mexico? Sure he’s her biological dad, but he might as well be a distant uncle on an emotional level. Not really expecting his death to have any earth-shattering repercussions on her and her character trajectory.”
I tend to agree, but then there’s plenty of mileage to be gotten out of Claire’s “You’re supposed to be Superman” speech in 3.21. Nathan may not have called Claire every night or flown over to help her with homework or taken her to the movies, but he might still have had a big influence on her in terms of what he represented to her. He’s proof of how a super can adjust to their ability and get on with their lives; how you can learn to live with what you can do, conceal it and become a public figure with a family. That’s not necessarily what Claire wants, but it’s the alternative to joining the carnival or becoming a hermit, and I think that’s an alternative that would (or should) have appealed to Claire. If Nathan hadn’t been pulled into the Kirby Plaza drama… and the Shanti Virus drama… and the Future-Peter-shooting-him drama… and the people-with-abilities-are-blatantly-dangerous-to-society drama… he probably would have accepted his ability and gotten on with his life. That strikes me as exactly what Claire wants to do with her ability and her life.
LeeAnna, I don’t think you’re giving Aunt Virginia enough credit.
You mention how Mama Coolidge was always a pillar of support for Emma while she was grieving for Christopher, but Sylar doesn’t appear to have blamed himself for Papa Gray’s departure (and he didn’t even know about the adoption until relatively recently), AND we’ve seen how much Virginia doted on Gabriel. So, I’m tempted to argue that there’s a parallel between Mama Coolidge and Aunt Virginia (more than you suggest), but that there’s less of a parallel between the two grieving offspring (Emma has a reason to grieve, Gabriel less so, in my view). Virginia was kind of batty and overbearing and domineering, but I think you could point to their reunion in 1.21 (and, to a lesser extent, Sylar’s reunion with Not!Virginia in 3.24) and argue that Virginia would have offered Gabriel the support he needed if he’d wanted it.
“For her it was guilt, for him it was because he felt disconnected from everyone.”
I wonder why that was, though. It can’t simply be because Gabriel’s adoptive father walked out on him or because he found it hard to meet people. We’ve seen in 3.08 that Gabriel would have had no trouble making friends; even though Elle had a hidden agenda, Gabriel demonstrated that he could be funny and sensitive. Even when he’s flirting with Lynette in Matt’s body in 4.09, I think there’s evidence that Sylar can be charming when he wants to be. So it’s not as if Gabriel or Sylar are condemned to being social misfits. They’re both good-looking, intelligent, witty and perceptive people. AND we know from episodes like 3.03 that Sylar is capable of being an agent and making a positive difference if he wants to. So, perhaps part of the tragedy is (1) that Gabriel did have the support he needed — and could have gotten it from the people around him if he’d tried — but rejected it; and (2) that both Gabriel and Sylar have the capacity to use their gifts (superpowered or not) to make a difference, and that they’ve rejected them in favor of becoming a social outcast (in the first instance) and a psychokiller (in the second).
Pas,
“Would Sylar having people supporting be enough to change him?”
I saw this as one of the central questions in Volume Three. Whether it was well executed and whether it was explored as much as it should have been is another issue, but I think it’s part of the logic behind Sylar killing Elle; he was admitting to himself that he was “damaged goods,” and that no amount of support was going to change him.
For me, no doubt, it’s not Nathan, just Sylar thinking he’s Nathan, point ;).
On another note, I agree that no amount of support would have changed him, since he chose not to try. There’s also the difference between having support to change, and having any support at all from the start. From what we’ve seen he did seem lonely before becoming a serial killer. However, it didn’t seem to bother him that much. He wasn’t trying that hard to make friends either… Which is what made it hilarious to watch him whine at himself (morphed into his mommy) because he never fit in. I don’t see why we should feel bad for someone who is a serial killer - even if he doesn’t remember it - who is okay with being evil and would have been evil even without any kind of bad influence. Of course since being on the good side means you get killed while the serial killer just keeps running around, I guess killing is the right choice for him.
“Besides that initial moment when HRG called her in 4.02, everyone has pretty much accepted it.”
I think that the initial shocks are about the same for Sandra and HRG, at least for me.
“…dude who could make teddy bears disappear”
Don’t you think he can make more than that disappear, say for example an entire carnival?
“… there’s plenty of mileage to be gotten out of Claire’s “You’re supposed to be Superman” speech in 3.21″
Wow, you’ve gone way beyond me in interpreting what Nathan means for Claire! It kinda makes sense, but I think she can see the big difference between the shining beacon of a father she may have fantasized about, and the real life self-proclaimed “shark”. I think for me it’ll be interesting to see if Claire’s reaction (if we ever see it) will ring true.
Forgot to put Otto’s quote in italics again. sorry [No worries, fixed. -- Otto]
Regarding time travellers and brain tumours… to quote Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode Out Of Time, “the human brain is not designed to know its own future.” I had originally thought, given the rooftop leaps in both shows, that Hiro’s tumour was a reference to Sam Tyler’s tumour in Life On Mars. Now I’m wondering if the tumour is a result of the brain trying to cope with information from multiple time streams. Which makes me wonder if Damien and/or The Haitian might be able to cure Hiro…
As good as this show can be, it would be nice for a change if there was an explanation within the context of the show, and we didn’t have to go looking elsewhere for answers. Interesting as that can be, it’s also frustrating (if not poor writing). While I do read the online comics, I don’t get to see any webisodes until they’re DVD extras.
Regarding Sylar: Once Upon A Time In Texas gives him better and more meaningful character development than the whole of season 3. He’s definitely overused, which is a pity as if used sparingly we’d still be interested in him. Further to that, with Samuel’s backstory undermining his villainy, I’m kind of glad Arthur Petrelli’s backstory was so minimal.
And… if Damien turns out to be The Haitian’s other brother, I might have to throw something at the television.
I *perfectly* understand your dismay with the recent character change in Samuel… but I have to say, at least it doesn’t completely drive the unique presence that Knepper brings the role out of the show.
I was very skeptical that they would do to Samuel what they did to Arthur and Danko, this is giving them a lot of screen time, lots of menace, but not a whole lot of motivation. Despite the fact that Samuel’s motivation mirrors early-Sylar, at least it *is* a clear motivation.
I preferred the more enigmatic Samuel from past episodes where we weren’t positive of his intentions, now that he has revealed himself as more of a demonic and tyrannical villain, it is taking me some time to get used to it. It reminds me of “Revenge of the Sith”, I enjoyed Palpatine when he was the seemingly kindly Chancellor, and as he slowly revealed his villainy through clever manipulation and scheming. When he became Darth Sidious, he was extremely flamboyant and demonic, which took more getting used to. I feel that they did the same with Samuel. Samuel as the mystery man with a helping hand made him more magnetic, but his reveal as the monster beneath, or the wolf in sheep’s clothing, is taing some getting used to.
Either way, I think Knepper is brilliant. Excellent review as always Otto!
regarding Nathan and Claire - I think people are forgetting the over all idea and sadness in losing a parent you never got to know and mourning for the lose of a relationship you will never have.