Can we start a petition! My god, the history, the costumes the music, it’d be like some amazing novel.

Otto:

I totally see your point, but I think we have to agree to disagree, because your right and in the end Linderman used his healing power to trump Arthur, but I just think Arthur had every reason to fear Arthur and I’ll leave it at that.

Look forward to your thoughts on the next episode.

I completley agree Otto… Arthur knows this to be true as well… Who’s image did Arthur use in order to build up Pineheart’s gang… Linderman. Who’s image did he use to manipulate Nathan… Linderman. Clearly Arthur is aware that Linderman wields a great deal of power and influence, and can very easily sway a common criminal like Daphne to join a ‘New World Order’. Writing about this makes me miserable that Linderman is still freakin’ dead! lol

I think Linderman’s cocky with everyone else because they can’t read his mind. He’s excellent at charming people, but if you stop and stare at him for a second you’ll see he’s full of crap. Part of that is how McDowell formulates words, his enunciation makes you believe what he’s saying. But if you shut that out, it’s all hollow. And Arthur was capable of shutting that out. I wouldn’t be surprised if, originally, Arthur had only absorbed a basic power and didn’t know how powerful he was. Then they looked up to Adam because he was effectively a God - which leads to a point: who knew Adam was still alive?

Kaito, Bob and Victoria could’ve faked his death. They knew how to kill him, and maybe they called the bluff of everyone else in a ‘we killed Adam, what are you going to do’ way. It’s clear The Company Founders were still a unit as of 1992, so (save for Maury) they seem to have remained a unit to a degree. Therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if very few people knew Adam was still alive, and Angela only found out when Maury paid her a visit (chances are Maury was yelling at her that Adam was going to get her.)

And once again - ELDERS: A MINI SERIES!

“It seems like they’re suggesting he’s not so much evil as egocentric and a believer that he’s better than God - which may lead to him accidentally helping the world be destroyed…”

I agree, and I wonder whether that attempt to make Arthur “inadvertently” or “accidentally” genocidal might ruin his stature as the volume’s Big Bad. Is he more villainous if he actually wants to bring superpowers to the masses and delight in the anarchy that causes? The “accidental villain” part perhaps makes Arthur’s motives more complex, but I wonder if it also undermines him as a villain. Not sure, what do you think?

On Roundtree making a return of any kind or description — word.

John, great post. I agree, Linderman’s underhanded way of upstaging Arthur was very crafty and very in character. I miss that too, and I hope we get more scenes between Forster and McDowell at some point.

ThePandoraRose, I hope I haven’t misunderstood or ignored the point you were making — I see our points as being connected.

“I’m talking about how a powerful man can be subservient to another man - when that man can stop your brain from making you breath. It’s a giant game of paper, rock, scissors.”

Sure, and I agree: if Arthur and Linderman were in an isolated room and trying to kill one another, Arthur would snap Linderman’s neck and there’s not much Linderman could do besides heal a few dying plants.

The point I was trying to make was that, because of the nature of their abilities, the dynamic between Linderman and Arthur goes beyond a straightforward game of rock/paper/scissors. If it were only about whose power is more threatening, Linderman would have been terrified of Jessica and Candice back in Season One. The reason he wasn’t is because of the power and influence Linderman wields outside of that hypothetical isolated room: the people who work for Linderman, the resources Linderman has, the empire he’s created. Given the nature of their abilities, Linderman should by all accounts be able to gather more suppporters than Arthur ever could. Arthur rules by terror, but unless he’s going to mentally coerce each supporter one by one — repeatedly — there’s a limit to the loyalty he can get out of them. Linderman’s ability means he can offer to heal any of his goons — or their families — if they’re ever sick or dying. That engenders more loyalty than a superpowered gangster ever could by threatening to stop their vital organs with the power of his mind.

So, while I agree with your rock/paper/scissors metaphor, my point is that the dynamic between Linderman and Arthur goes beyond that: if they were in an isolated room and trying to kill one another, the question isn’t only, “Who would win?”, but also, “How many people would be standing on either side of that room, ready to fight and die for the guy they work for?” That’s why I think it was problematic to introduce Arthur as the head of The Company after Adam was out of the picture. Linderman’s ability gives him the leverage to gain even more power than Arthur can.

No true, and yes, but Linderman seems like a man who also wants power.

Sure, but I think the dynamic between Linderman and Adam — and between Linderman and Arthur — goes beyond that. Adam’s real power wasn’t so much his ability as it was his ideology and his ability to convince and sway others. The way I see it, that’s also Angela and Arthur’s greatest power — above and beyond their other abilities. It makes them infinitely more dangerous than they’d be if they were sheep like Flint or Maury, no matter how destructive their abilities are. But if it comes down to whose power is more formidable, I’d say Adam and Linderman still win because they have the ability to grant or deny life. As far as we know, Arthur’s ability is limited to granting death. A terrifying ability, I agree, but there are religious and mass-hysteria implications to granting life. From that standpoint, Adam and Linderman’s abilities trump Arthur’s.

No, totally, that’s not what I’m saying. Granting life is an amazing thing and I think that was part of how as young heroes they all looked to Adam as a god, and what he had to say. But I’m talking about how a powerful man can be subservient to another man - when that man can stop your brain from making you breath. It’s a giant game of paper, rock, scissors. Your other points are great and correct, but not really were I’m going.
As for Ian’s thought on Bob, you are correct he works out of Hartsdale, NY - I don’t think Angela took over New York.

The whole idea of Linderman acting like a lacky to Arthur bothered me at first…

It is obvious that the writers are trying to hit home how big of a villain Arthur truly is. First he kills Adam and Maury (the two villains of Volume 2), then he paralyzes Angela (the one we all thought was the master manipulator), and is now referring to Linderman (the top baddie of Season 1) as ‘outliving his usefullness’…

But the scene where Linderman heals Angela’s mind and smiled over his victory made me realise… Linderman WAS smarter than Arthur. HE pretended to follow Arthur in blind obedience, only to turn his own wife against him. Instead of hiring a ‘gun’ to kill Arthur, he has the woman he’s lived with for 30 years to kill him… THAT is the Godfather-pimp Linderman I remember from ‘Parasite’.

Damn I miss Linderman… bring him back to life guys!

But Arthur is a truly great villian… the best since Linderman. Forster gives a great elegance to Arthur. And it was great to see Malcolm McDowell and Robert Forster (arguably the best actors ever to appear on the show) share scenes together.

Re: The Company wise, I’d like to see how much of a role Charles had before his health started deteriorating. Something tells me they didn’t cast Roundtree as the character by mistake, like Takei he can be very forceful as an actor.

“…at this stage I think Arthur’s struggling to really break out…”

Interesting point. As a character, as a villain, or both? Your point ties in very closely with Kevin’s point about Arthur being a two-dimensional villain, but I’d be curious to hear if you feel that’s because of the characterization or the story arc. I think Arthur’s been brilliantly conceived and portrayed as a character (calculating, treacherous, deceptively warm, dangerously warped), but perhaps even a few episodes was too long to keep us guessing about his endgame? It looks like 3.09 expands on why he thinks The Formula will avert a disaster instead of causing it, but maybe he needed a more defined goal? I’m not sure, I think that part of his character arc is playing out very well.

“Bob wise, he was all that’s left…”

But what about The Ones Who Were There To Look Pretty? Were they all too incompetent to run a facility on their own? Did Arthur think they were all too weak-minded? Or had Arthur mind-wiped them all, and were they too doped-out to be much use at this point?

Kevin, great post. I totally agree about the way 3.08 fleshed out Angela, Elle, Linderman and Meredith.

“What does [Arthur] need a cadre of villains for?”

You put forward a very persuasive argument to support why he doesn’t. My take on it is he sees himself as the general of his army and doesn’t like to get dirty in the trenches. He’s the fiercest fighter and the smartest strategist, but he likes to delegate the everyday work: tracking down supers, killing them if they’re a threat, recruiting them if they’re useful to his cause. Assigning the “mundane” tasks frees him up to plan his objectives and tackle the stuff he doesn’t think his lackeys are capable of. When there’s an urgent issue that no one can handle as swiftly and effectively as he can — like finding Hiro and sucking out his memories (and what little intelligence he has) — then he steps in.

“[Hiro] still has underused potential…”

Oh, I agree. I wonder if TPTBs are as clued in to that as they could be, but I agree. For me, though, it’d mean ditching the comedy and going back to the darker side of Future-Hiro.

“I’m looking forward to “Fugitives,” and an end to Arthur.”

Would everyone agree that Arthur’s arc won’t last beyond this volume? I guess that’s the idea behind several smaller volumes and story arcs, but I was kind of intrigued when Angela brought up the subject of Grandma Petrelli. I wonder what kind of upbringing Arthur had, and whether the show will ever try to “Sylarize” Arthur by exploring how he turned out the way he has.

ThePandoraRose, nice distinction between Linderman idolizing and being jealous of Arthur. To me, jealousy suggests a level of bitterness and resentment, and I think the only reason Linderman would have to feel that way towards Arthur is because of the way Arthur mistreated Angela. I’m guessing Linderman was in awe of Arthur’s charisma and confidence when it came to running The Company.

“Could Adam kill him by just telling his brain to stop breathing? This isn’t just a guy with a gun, Arthur is way, way powerful. It’s fear of death, who wouldn’t fear that?”

Sure, but I think the dynamic between Linderman and Adam — and between Linderman and Arthur — goes beyond that. Adam’s real power wasn’t so much his ability as it was his ideology and his ability to convince and sway others. The way I see it, that’s also Angela and Arthur’s greatest power — above and beyond their other abilities. It makes them infinitely more dangerous than they’d be if they were sheep like Flint or Maury, no matter how destructive their abilities are. But if it comes down to whose power is more formidable, I’d say Adam and Linderman still win because they have the ability to grant or deny life. As far as we know, Arthur’s ability is limited to granting death. A terrifying ability, I agree, but there are religious and mass-hysteria implications to granting life. From that standpoint, Adam and Linderman’s abilities trump Arthur’s.

ETA: Welcome, Sandy. The time on the Gray & Sons clock is 11:53. There was an episode in Season One titled “Seven Minutes to Midnight,” in which we learned that Sylar killed Chandra Suresh at 11:53pm (you can see the time on Sylar’s watch when he kills Chandra). Among other instances, it’s the time his watch has stopped at when he finds Charlie at the Burnt Toast Diner (in the same episode), and it’s the time on his watch when he gives it to Peter in “I Am Become Death.”